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Discrimination and hypocrisy
http://www.envirolink.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7517
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Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Thu May 08, 2008 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discrimination and hypocrisy

barb wrote:
Quote:
Let's try this again..... with Paul Watson he is a SELF-PROCLAIMED pirate and also also claimed some and been prosecuted for some illegal actions he just feels what he is doing is justified. The same goes for ALF. They claim responsibility for illegal actions on a regular basis but again they feel they are justified.


And, this describes PERFECTLY what members here whom we are not allowed to name who engage in that illegal action that we are not allowed to name have said -

They feel they are justified in breaking certain animal cruelty laws.

Amazingly, Envirolink agrees. You've said it over and over again - Envirolink supports illegal animal cruelty and protects criminals of your choosing.

I give up. So many members and ex-members have gone through this same nonsense and nothing changed. You will go on changing the rules and judging members by who they are rather than what they say. That is not going to change. So - ** shrug ** --- Let it go.


Let me try to explain it to you one last time in a way you may understand it.

When the national speed limit was set at 55 mph, anyone driving over that speed was breaking the law. Those who drove faster than that before the law was enacted were not. Thus, if one were to have stated everyone who has driven over 55 are slime it would cover those who drove legally. The attack is on the person not the illegal act. In any case I think this has gone on long enough for any reasonable person to have understood ot.

Author:  josh knauer [ Sun May 11, 2008 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Discrimination and hypocrisy

barb wrote:
Amazingly, Envirolink agrees. You've said it over and over again - Envirolink supports illegal animal cruelty and protects criminals of your choosing.


Let's be perfectly clear about something, since you are making false, libelous statements about a non-profit organization. The EnviroLink Network (which you refer to as EnviroLink) is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization. The organization itself has never expressed any opinions on any issues of any sort, other than issuing a statement in the late 1990's about the protection of the freedom of speech online. By successfully logging into this forum system, you have agreed to a terms of service that include your acknowledgement that no individual on this board has the ability to represent the EnviroLink Network. Wayne, AnimalLover, and myself do not represent any official positions of the organization.

I would challenge you to please refer to any document, posting or other evidence that support your statement that "Envirolink supports illegal animal cruelty and protects criminals..." If you can not provide such proof, I will give you exactly one opportunity to retract that statement and perhaps edit the original post to reflect that retraction. If you persist in pursuing such false claims, you may find that you have to defend those allegations in a more rigorous legal setting.

-josh

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Sun May 11, 2008 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Discrimination and hypocrisy

barb wrote:
I admire and agree with many of the actions of the ALF. I've often read of other members here who have also spoken out in favor of the ALF's illegal actions only to be viciously attacked by other members (as well as the "mods" for crying out loud!!!) for their opinions. I have not attacked other members here and have attacked ONLY criminal ACTIONS. I object to having my opinions denigrated and "attacked" for no other reason than those actions being illegal.

I do NOT engage in illegal or unethical actions and yet I am attacked by people who openly admit to crimes of horrific animal abuse. And, the owner and moderators of this forum actually protect the admitted criminals, because, they claim, the admitted criminals are members of this forum. They take the side of those members who admit to being criminals against those members who only agree with certain illegal actions.

If you're going to make up an arbitrary new rule that says I cannot openly disagree with and attack illegal animal cruelty (that used to be legal, whatever the hell THAT means!) isn't it time to make up a rule that covers other illegal actions that might have been legal in the past? If you're going to protect one group of criminals because they're members here, isn't it only fair to protect other members who live inside the law but agree with OTHER illegal actions? And, if you're going to demand that common criminals be treated with respect, what about actual members of the ALF who might also be members of this forum? Are you going to protect ALL criminals or only the ones with whom you agree?

During the past couple of days, I've gotten PM's from other members in which they talked about having to "shut up and suck up" to the owner and "mods", or be warned, deleted, edited or even banned. Just once, I'd like to see the "mods" of this forum be honest and fair in their actions. Just once, I'd like to see the "mods" have the gumption to face up to their own hypocrisy and let this post stand without immediately being deleted or edited.

I realize that many many others have been through this before me. And, I realize that the "mods" just go on doing as they wish with no thought as to what is right or fair. Just once, I'd like to see this issue treated fairly and without childish censure. Quit being so afraid of letting people state their opinions. Quit acting like little gods in your own little world and understand this is ONLY an internet forum.

(I wonder how long it will take the "mods" to delete this one, or will they dishonestly delete the parts they don't like ...?
I believe this is a fair and reasonable question but I wouldn't be surprised to come back later to find I'm banned that post gone.)


There is now the ability to retract your statement in the original thread and edit that post.

Author:  josh knauer [ Sun May 11, 2008 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discrimination and hypocrisy

Barb... just to be absolutely clear. I am giving you the opportunity to retract your statement that you made on May 8 at 2:26 pm:

Quote:
You've said it over and over again - Envirolink supports illegal animal cruelty and protects criminals of your choosing.


I believe this is a false and purposefully misleading statement about a non-profit organization. You made this statement in a public forum and continue to support the statement. As the Chair of the Board of Directors of the EnviroLink Network, I am giving you one more chance (24 hours) to retract this libelous statement publicly here on this forum.

To all other users, please realize that I am very serious about this and I do not want anyone else to comment on this issue in this forum right now. EnviroLink has never held any policy of supporting illegal animal cruelty and has never knowingly protected criminals of our choosing. EnviroLink, as a non-profit organization that relies on the generosity of individuals and foundations to keep running, false statements like this must be vigorously prosecuted which unfortunately can only happen in civil (not criminal) court.

-josh

Author:  josh knauer [ Tue May 13, 2008 2:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Discrimination and hypocrisy

Ok, I am locking this thread down now. This user has been banned permanently from the site.

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