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 Post subject: What melt?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:39 pm 
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I just found these two graphs on sea ice extent that do not show any signs of wavering. So, what are the AGW people saying when talking about melting caps?

http://nsidc.org/cryosphere/seaice/char ... rence.html

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 Post subject: Re: What melt?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:00 pm 
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I don't understand, did you actually bother to look at the graph for the arctic? It shows a trend and the record low is in 08 by some margin which is the last year on the graph. And why stop at 08 anyway?


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 Post subject: Re: What melt?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:23 pm 
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HeritageFarm wrote:
I just found these two graphs on sea ice extent that do not show any signs of wavering. So, what are the AGW people saying when talking about melting caps?

http://nsidc.org/cryosphere/seaice/char ... rence.html

Image

Image


You really need to look much more closely to the Arctic graph as there is a clear decline in the maximum and minimum valuses throughout the period.

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 Post subject: Re: What melt?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:29 pm 
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This shows the trend as of 2004, which has not improved since then as we have set a new record low this year.

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 Post subject: Re: What melt?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:42 am 
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I see... It just wasn't emphasized very well by that graph; it is too big of a graph to show much decline. Just by looking at that graph, the decline looks like an error margin almost.


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 Post subject: Re: What melt?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:56 am 
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HeritageFarm wrote:
I see... It just wasn't emphasized very well by that graph; it is too big of a graph to show much decline. Just by looking at that graph, the decline looks like an error margin almost.
looks like a 13% reduction over 30 years (2/15) which is very significant for something that varies over an interglacial period of tens of thousands of years.


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 Post subject: Re: What melt?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:56 am 
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HeritageFarm wrote:
I see... It just wasn't emphasized very well by that graph; it is too big of a graph to show much decline. Just by looking at that graph, the decline looks like an error margin almost.


.
Yes, the scale of a graph can be misleading, which is why it is hard to "eyeball" trends accurately. The better way is to use a statistical program to check the trend

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 Post subject: Re: What melt?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:13 pm 
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mavisdavis wrote:
Though this place is far away in our place still I felt scared. They say that if in antarctic is melting big wave will follow in every sea. Is this true?
The ice in your cup of ice tea will not change the level of the ice tea when it melts. The ice that is not in the ocean such as glaciers and the ice on the lands of Antarctica and Greenland WILL add to the height of the oceans. The big thing about the arctic ice is it is the first indication that the world is getting warmer but also that it is like a reflector keeping the sun out of the water. More sun means more warming of the globe. You will not see waves of water but when there is a storm, the highest point of the water will be higher so buildings and dykes that used to survive the storms will start to fail from flooding.


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 Post subject: Re: What melt?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:04 pm 
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Ann Vole wrote:
mavisdavis wrote:
Though this place is far away in our place still I felt scared. They say that if in antarctic is melting big wave will follow in every sea. Is this true?
The ice in your cup of ice tea will not change the level of the ice tea when it melts. The ice that is not in the ocean such as glaciers and the ice on the lands of Antarctica and Greenland WILL add to the height of the oceans. The big thing about the arctic ice is it is the first indication that the world is getting warmer but also that it is like a reflector keeping the sun out of the water. More sun means more warming of the globe. You will not see waves of water but when there is a storm, the highest point of the water will be higher so buildings and dykes that used to survive the storms will start to fail from flooding.


Maybe, but the warm(comparitively) water of an ice free Arctic ocean will cause lots more snow fall on Greenland.

Also there should be expected to be more snow fall over the northern tundra and forrest regions. The last ice age may well of started like this. If there is a thick enough snow covering over the northj of the continents then perhaps snow can survive the summer....


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 Post subject: Re: What melt?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:50 pm 
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With the much higher temperatures at higher latitudes the postulated extra snow in Greenland will melt quickly. The tundra methane releases are going up fast and have been at the tipping point of being self releasing since 2009. The open ocean warming increase is also approaching a self sustaining tipping point. With double the carbon in the tundra methane deposits and a comparable amount in the warming ocean deposits, the future with business as usual is thermageddon for future survivors.
The ice age cycle will be broken for 200K years, until re-sequestration of the carbon is complete. The temperature was going down and the snow would have built up if it weren't for human green house gas production. If Yellowstone blows before probable, then it could possibly restart the cycle.

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 Post subject: Re: What melt?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:39 pm 
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On the denialists grabbing at the straw of Antarctic ice; "This is a claim the climate contrarians tend to make almost every time Arctic sea ice sets a record or near-record low. In reality, the trends in Antarctic sea ice are pretty small compared to what’s happening in the Arctic."
from skeptical science

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Last edited by Johhny Electriglide on Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What melt?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:50 pm 
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Johhny you wouldn't happen to have been known as "Ice Czar" on another board in the past?

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 Post subject: Re: What melt?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:06 pm 
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No, but I often agreed with him. I was mgopilot then Johnny Electriglide, kicked off for being politically incorrect.
here is a great article with links;
http://www.skepticalscience.com/compreh ... ation.html

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