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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:25 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Snowy123 wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:


The natural atmospheric variations will play a part in any weather, even that related to global warming unless something very drastic happens.

The claim made by Johnny was not related to anything the paper quoted would refute in any way.


Being caused by AGW and being caused by natural variability are two very different and separate entities.


How did that natural variabilty cause the "peat bog fires of far beyond historic magnitude" without being related in any way to increased global warming or climate change?


Snowy123 wrote:
An unusual blocking high that is associated with natural variability.

The bolded section above is simply mere speculation.


No, from what I have read on the fires I can find no worse case of such fires mentioned in the historical record, but it is Russian too. It is also a fact the vast majority of the data shows a significant global warming warming trend and the experts in the field attribute changing weather patterns to said warming. Thus, there is very likely a connection between the warming trend and the changes in the weather and other record books and as such is not mere speculation.

Also the bold section was the claim made to which you were supposedly making a reply.

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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:54 pm 
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You've said it all, Wayne, and I wonder why there is any argument at all.
http://blog.nwf.org/wp-content/blogs.di ... arison.png
I wonder at the stupidity of preventing meaningful carbon reductions and transition to emission free power and transport since 1992. People like this snow character preventing common knowledge from spreading. The power of ignorance and the fossil fuel industries and the industries like airlines they support. No one wants their bottom line cut into, and they only care about their own measly little world where they are made of gold and can be sold for ever greater amounts. Growth when we should have had negative growth. Growth when we should have transitioned to a steady state economy. It is just common wisdom that you should not use a resource faster than it can be replenished, or to pollute more than that can be absorbed or rendered harmless.
There have been numerous warning cries, unheeded. Time is running out to change, or in the worst case they, the ignorant and greedy have held it back too long already.
People like snow not only can go to hell, they will go to hell, IMHO. :twisted: :evil: :x :razz: [-X #-o =;
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Default New study, rapid melting of the world's permafrost

From the Denver Post 12-20-2005
"Global Warming is likely to melt 90 percent of the world's permafrost by 2100, according to a new study out of Boulder.
Permafrost--permanently frozen soil--stretches across about 4 million square miles of the Northern Hemisphere but may disappear from half of that by 2050, according to David Lawrence, a National Center for Atmospheric Research scientist and lead author of a new paper published in the current issue of Geophysical Research Letters.
The study was the first to probe the future of permafrost with a sophisticated computer model that includes the behavior of the atmosphere, oceans, land, sea ice, and soil, NCAR reported."
From reports of the Siberian Tundra melting and releasing more and more methane, it is easy to see an acceleration of climate change that must happen. The seeming "stability" of the high temperatures of the last three years is illusory. Methane has 20 times the effect of heat trapping in the atmosphere as an equal unit of CO2. I expect future reports won't be better, unless emissions are greatly reduced.
If only we would have started transitioning away from fossil fuels in the early 1980s, we wouldn't be facing worse than worst case scenarios. Here is some visual help:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/rooted/2012/ ... -accurate/

And along come people like snow to gum up the good work, what a sad person, of little intellect or foresight. [-X =; :mrgreen:

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Last edited by Johhny Electriglide on Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
People like snow not only can go to hell, they will go to hell, IMHO. :twisted: :evil: :x :razz: [-X #-o =;


You are the saddest person I have ever met on the internet, which is an accomplishment.

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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:00 am 
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mothy wrote:
aiyana wrote:
Human activities have led to large increases in heat-trapping gases over the past century. The global warming of the past 50 years is due primarily to this human-induced increase. Global average temperature and sea level have increased, and precipitation patterns have changed. Human “fingerprints” also have been identified in many other aspects of the climate system, including changes in ocean heat content, precipitation, atmospheric moisture, plant and animal health and location, and Arctic sea ice.
:D



If Al Gore brings out a video you bet your cotton socks it is to appease his money mad boyfriends. Climate change has been going on since the earth spun. So forget it friend and stop being brainwashed into paying more taxes.


That's why the term anthropogenic. Natural variation is alive and well today. We have overwhelmed the natural variation.


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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:11 am 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
No, "The Sixth Extinction", caused by the ignorant, greedy majority of humanity in this Anthropocene Epoch, will continue through the human population crash to thermageddon.
I think that on other planets in the Universe, beings similar to humans also started on a path of destruction, recognized it, and acted in time to prevent a crash and thermageddon or other eco-collapse for themselves. They were smarter on average........and not over-tolerant.


Actually I see it as greedy minority. These scumbums will loose eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:17 am 
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Snowy123 wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:


The natural atmospheric variations will play a part in any weather, even that related to global warming unless something very drastic happens.

The claim made by Johnny was not related to anything the paper quoted would refute in any way.


Being caused by AGW and being caused by natural variability are two very different and separate entities.

The two are mixed together very well. The problem is that it is hard to seperate them


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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:26 am 
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Hansen has shown the earth is experiencing change just with the temperature record. Its a very powerful yet simple and elegant paper showing what the earth is going through and where it has come from


http://www.skepticalscience.com/Summary ... -2011.html

1951 to 1980 baseline. James Hansen is comparing the world regions anomalies to 2003 to 2011. I have read over this several times and get something new out of it each time.

1 sigma events occur 33% above and below a mean (or central point)
2 sigma events occur 2.43% above and below
3 sigma events occur .13% above and below

if you look at fig 3 up in the rt hand corner are the percentages of the points lieing in the sigma ranges.
sigma
.........-3. -2...-1 ....0 .... +1...+2..+3
1955 0... 2... 45...32.... 20...1.....0
2010 0....1....15....18....34...18.. 13



2003.......6%
2004.......3%
2005.......5%
2006.......5%
2007.......5%
2008.......4%
2009.......6%
2010......11%
2011........8%
The near normal distribution expected is close to what 1955 is. If you go back and look at 1965, and 1975 you will see similar numbers provided by Dr. James Hansen. +3 sigma is the very hot category. The sigmas are decreasing and the + sigmas are increasing all through the last decade which is the hottest decade in instrumental temperature history.


http://www.skepticalscience.com/news.php?n=1242


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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Image

Since I am new here I am hoping that my picture will come through. It gives a overall view of the radiation budget of the earth of where energy gets through or gets reradiatied back to earth.
The text to help explain what is being shown is here.

http://bethyada.blogspot.com/2008/07/radiation-in-atmosphere.html


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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:13 pm 
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renewable guy wrote:
Image

Since I am new here I am hoping that my picture will come through. It gives a overall view of the radiation budget of the earth of where energy gets through or gets reradiatied back to earth.
The text to help explain what is being shown is here.

http://bethyada.blogspot.com/2008/07/radiation-in-atmosphere.html


It did not for me, but it should have ......

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Just an observation. The spectrograph results posted above clearly show water vapor absorbs much more heat than CO2.

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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:33 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
Just an observation. The spectrograph results posted above clearly show water vapor absorbs much more heat than CO2.



Yes, and if the concentration in the atmosphere did not drop out so quickly it would be a bigger concern.

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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Milton Banana wrote:
Just an observation. The spectrograph results posted above clearly show water vapor absorbs much more heat than CO2.



Yes, and if the concentration in the atmosphere did not drop out so quickly it would be a bigger concern.


I'm not certain I understand. Are you suggesting that CO2 and water vapor interact with heat differently?

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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Milton Banana wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Milton Banana wrote:
Just an observation. The spectrograph results posted above clearly show water vapor absorbs much more heat than CO2.



Yes, and if the concentration in the atmosphere did not drop out so quickly it would be a bigger concern.


I'm not certain I understand. Are you suggesting that CO2 and water vapor interact with heat differently?


Yes they do, but that was not the point. The point was the water concentration drops off on a regular basis in the form of precipitation. The CO2 levels cycle with the seasons but do not easily reduce as does water. Thus, an increase in water added to the atmosphere will be mitigated when precipitation occurs. If the temperature of the atmosphere increases the amount of water which can be held will increase accordingly, but the concentration will cycle back down. That is why water is more of a feedback than a potential driver and CO2 can be both.

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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:56 pm 
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Milton Banana wrote:
Just an observation. The spectrograph results posted above clearly show water vapor absorbs much more heat than CO2.


Yes, which is why Water Vapor and Clouds rank and number one and two for being the strongest greenhouse gases. Changes in either in response to temperature changes will have profound impacts on temperatures. The satellite evidence suggests negative feedbacks and an insensitive climate system exist naturally.

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 Post subject: Re: Global Warming
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:58 pm 
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renewable guy wrote:
Snowy123 wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:


The natural atmospheric variations will play a part in any weather, even that related to global warming unless something very drastic happens.

The claim made by Johnny was not related to anything the paper quoted would refute in any way.


Being caused by AGW and being caused by natural variability are two very different and separate entities.

The two are mixed together very well. The problem is that it is hard to seperate them


I would agree that Climate Change and natural variabilility are close together, but not Anthropogenic Climate Change. Many papers document that the russian heat wave was a result of natural variability.

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