EnviroLink Forum

Actually, 7 billion was hit in August or October of 2011. The death rate will increase as the economy worsens and health care is lessened while famines and diseases increase along with area warfare. Birthrates will continue to decrease, too. A point will be reached where birthrate and death rate are equal, followed by a rapidly increasing death rate from a variety of factors.
Then death rates will decrease to less than birth rates at some point of much lower population.
That is the simple explanation. The reality is of horror and suffering, not just for humans, but many other species as well.

http://www.cosmosmith.com/human_population_crisis.htm

http://www.paulchefurka.ca/CC_Overshoot.html

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

As described;

Overpopulation of hunter gatherers would also destroy the biosphere(without predators or enough diseases, and with the technical achievement of weapons), and so would overpopulation of vegetarian farmers(without enough predators and diseases, and with the technology of the "green revolution").
Fossil fueled industrialized agriculture and transport began the stimulated overpopulation, and the technology of weapons and medicine got rid of predators from wolves to viruses, and increased agricultural output with irrigation and fertilizers along with chemical herbicides and insecticides. They all added with each other for the rapid destruction, pollution, and depletion we see.
The economic system also had its effect of over-consumption promotion, and religions their effects of overpopulation.
http://www.worldhistorysite.com/population.html
Seeing it is probably impossible to stop the mid century population crash, the more important thing is to save the biosphere from a mass extinction event caused by human pollution---AETM. That is the serious threat, and may be possible to stop with an 80 to 90% reduction in HGHGs by 2020 or so. Fossil fuel use makes up 70% of that and slash and burn agriculture to feed the overpopulation is 30%. The demand is from overpopulation now.
http://www.paulchefurka.ca/CC_Overshoot.html


Suzanne York
People's Rights, Planet's Rights Holistic Approaches to a Sustainable Population
Overview
"Human population numbers have been fodder for
discussion since ancient times. Aristotle, Confucius, Machiavelli and many others expressed concern about increases in population.
In more contemporary times, the Reverend Thomas Malthus
predicted that population growth would be checked by world hunger, famine, and malnutrition. However, the Industrial Revolution and the rise of fossil fuels usage proved many of his theories wrong.
More recently, in the late 1960s, Dr. Paul and Anne Ehrlich's The Population Bomb echoed similar concerns, though the Green Revolution put off the day of reckoning that Ehrlich feared.
Interestingly, Norman Borlaug, the “father” of the Green Revolution, noted that this effort would only buy humanity a little bit of time.
In his acceptance speech for the Nobel Peace Prize, which he won in 1970, Borlaug said “Most people still fail to comprehend the magnitude and menace of the 'Population Monster'." The New York Times wrote that he was frustrated throughout his life that governments did not do more to tackle population growth by lowering birth rates, and at one point said “If the world population continues to increase at the same rate, we will destroy the species.”
Today the number of humans on Earth number over 7 billion. The mid-range United Nations population projection is for 9.3 billion people by 2050. However, just an average of one half (1.375 instead of 2.75 TFR ) fewer children per woman would reduce that number to 8 billion, with positive effects on health, education, food, water and resource availability.
There are approaches we can take – all grounded in fairness, equality, and rights – that can make a difference in balancing population growth and the health of the planet. It goes beyond numbers and requires a holistic, rights-based approach to talking about population and producing positive changes. Calling it the ‘Population Monster’ or population control won't direct the conversation where it needs to be.
The bottom line is there will remain billions of people on the planet, barring any major catastrophes, for the rest of this century and far beyond. Finger pointing, denying rights, myopic thinking, and the like will not improve lives or the environment. Global society is confronted by a range of serious ecological, economic, and social issues that require a systemic and holistic path. We are all in this together; let's take an inclusive approach, look closely at how lives may be improved, and put the political and moral will behind doing so."
Barring major catastrophes will be the hardest part. Like world financial meltdown, aquifers depleting, ocean fisheries collapse, Kafla volcano, most oil depleted or too high a price, vastly increased CAGW effects, nuclear war, Cascadia, La Palma, soil depletion effects without petro chemical fertilizers, increased heavy metal pollution, garbage, mass riots, malnutrition effects and diseases.
http://collapseofindustrialcivilization ... overshoot/

As for US population factors;
Among the key findings of the FAIR/Pulse Opinion poll:
•By a 53% to 41% margin, voters believe our nation's borders are not secure.
•By a 74% to 21% margin, voters believe the government is not doing an effective job preventing illegal aliens from living and working in the U.S.
•By a 53% to 26% margin, voters believe that illegal immigration is harmful to American workers.
•By a 66% to 11% margin, voters believe that illegal immigration imposes a burden on American taxpayers.
and today it shows that 72% do not want to educate illegals' excessively numerous low IQ children with taxpayers' money.

Another good article from a Prof. Emeritus of History;
http://www.npg.org/forum_series/Little_ ... 021913.pdf

http://dieoff.org/_Systems/PopulationCr ... entury.pdf

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

The root cause has not been hit enough, even though it is too late to stop the 2030-2050 crash peak followed by 90 to 99% population drop (400 million deaths per year). There is still time(though not much) to mitigate it and to stop emissions enough in time to save the biosphere from AETM ELE.
http://www.cosmosmith.com/population_clock.htm

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

From the above link;
"When scientists talk about overpopulation, they are usually referring to a population exceeding its biological carrying capacity which is defined as "the maximum number of animals that a specific habitat or area can support without causing deterioration or degradation of that habitat." Likewise, human overpopulation is when the number of people can not be permanently maintained without depleting resources and without degrading the environment and the people's standard of living. One might consider that if we were to consume less, we may be able to live within the carrying capacity of the planet. However, we should not reduce our consumption or degrade our lifestyle in order to claim that the human race is not overpopulated. Especially not as our number continues to increase.

Population Reciprocal Chart Some may argue about how much vacant room there still is on Earth to hold billions and billions of more people. However, one must consider the fact that people are all made up of atoms of matter, and that matter which comprises our bodies has had to come from the earth itself. The majority of the matter in our bodies is in the form of water. At the rate our population is presently growing, within 1200 years, our oceans would be entirely converted into people as more and more water is required to build the bodies of people. This is not even considering the water required for drinking, washing, irrigating crops, sea life, etc.

Hypothetically, if the human population continued to grow at our present rate, the mass of people would be equal to the mass of the earth within 1600 years. In 2300 years at this rate, the mass of people would fill up our entire solar system, and if you were able to create matter from nothing in order to make people, in roughly 5300 years a great sphere of humanity with a radius of over 150 light-years would be expanding faster than the speed of light.

These are not predictions of things that may happen. Limitations will halt our growth much sooner. The intent is instead to illustrate how rapidly our population is growing and to express that this obviously can not continue. The growth occurs so suddenly that the population can become unmanagable without sufficient warning, after it is too late to prevent catastrophe. In short, we are in great danger of using up both space and resources."

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Wow, over 23K "hits", this is definitely way more popular than so called fence sitting.
http://www.growthbiasbusted.org/wall-of ... ul-gilding
excerpt 2012; “Let me begin with four words… four words that will come to define this century. Here they are: The Earth is full. It's full of us, it's full of our stuff, full of our waste, full of our demands. Yes, we are a brilliant and creative species, but we've created a little too much stuff -- so much that our economy is now bigger than its host, our planet. This is not a philosophical statement, this is just science based in physics, chemistry and biology. There are many science-based analyses of this, but they all draw the same conclusion -- that we're living beyond our means.”

Overpopulation: An Overlooked Factor in Global Health
Lynsey Jones
Posted by Lynsey Jones on Thursday, 20 March 2014 in Wall of Fame
http://www.growthbiasbusted.org/wall-of ... bal-health
Excerpt; "Brian Krans is the author of today’s piece and I find it very interesting that he and his publication are also focused on the human health side of things. This new study seems to be gaining a lot of attention from that field. As it should! And perhaps this is really the approach that journalists and academics should be focusing on if we want to really attract public attention and action.

Krans states, “With an ever-growing population on a finite earth, the issue of overpopulation should be a major concern when evaluating how we’ll be able to feed and care for the masses. But it’s not.” And the problem here lies in the fact that people don’t want to acknowledge it, talk about it, or do anything about it. “Camilo Mora…reviewed nearly 200 research articles and found that population is being ‘downplayed and trivialized,’ despite its biological impact and its fundamental role in human welfare.”

Well we could have told you that. In fact, we have. But it warms my heart to know that people in other fields are now reading and writing about these issues. The underlying message of Mora’s study, and therefor Krans’ piece, is that nothing will get better if overpopulation continues to be the third rail of environmentalism. "

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

"Earth Day celebrations a cruel joke on Americans, especially their children
Blog post by Dave Gorak on April 16, 2014
Tags:
environment
population
immigration

On April 22 - Earth Day - the nation's children once again will be found "greening" up areas in their communities and doing it with great sincerity because their parents and educators tell them their efforts are making a difference.

Unfortunately, they are not.

Those responsible for nurturing those we often refer to as "the future of this country" are not telling these well-meaning children that their own government's cavalier and irresponsible immigration policy is responsible for 82 percent of this nation's population growth that plays into the loss of nearly 2 million acres of prime farmland to development every year.

When Earth Day debuted in 1970, the nation's population was 203 million people. It was a good idea at a time when Americans were very passionate about protecting the environment and our quality of life.

But that passion died long ago, and we are the poorer for it. Our population has exploded to nearly 318 million people, and Census is projecting more than 400 million of us by 2050 and 600 million-plus by century's end. This more than 40 years after the Rockefeller Commission on Population Growth and the American Future stated:
After two years of concentrated effort, we have concluded that, in the long run, no substantial benefits will result from further growth of the Nation’s population, rather that the gradual stabilization of our population through voluntary means would contribute significantly to the Nation’s ability to solve its problems. We have looked for, and have not found, any convincing economic argument for continued population growth. The health of our country does not depend on it, nor does the vitality of business nor the welfare of the average person."

Shortly before his death in 2005, Earth Day founder Gaylord Nelson told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel:
...in this country, it's phony to say, 'I'm for the environment but not for limiting immigration.' It's just a fact that we can't take all the people who want to come here. And you don't have to be a racist to realize that." "

" April 22, 1970: the very first Earth Day.

New York City Mayor John Lindsay shut down Fifth Avenue. Democrats, Independents, and Republicans alike gathered in tens of thousands at Fairmount Park in Philadelphia. The event put environmental concerns front and center across the nation, and the consequences were profound: the creation of the EPA and the passage of the Clean Air, Clean Water, and Endangered Species Acts.

After starting in the U.S., Earth Day soon went global -- and now is observed in more than 190 countries. It's a day when people around the world demonstrate their passion for policies and endeavors to help the planet we share.

You recently demonstrated this passion when you told the EPA you support strong carbon pollution standards for new power plants. We're hoping to count on your passion and support again this Earth Day to reach our goal of sending over 100,000 comments to the EPA.

When you sign up for our Thunderclap today, a post will automatically be published to your Facebook, Twitter, or Tumblr on Earth Day spreading the message that you support the strong carbon pollution standards for new power plants, and asking your friends to do the same.

The more people see your message, the stronger it will be once the EPA gathers and reviews all comments received over the past few months. Your help today will send a loud and clear message that can't be ignored: man-made carbon pollution is contributing to climate disruption and it's time we put a stop to it. In 1970, Earth Day transformed the environmental consciousness of a nation and took the movement forward. With your help, it can do the same in 2014.

Thanks for your support,
The Climate Reality Team"
It would sure be easier with the population of 1970, but insufficient action was done in time to prevent the crash and the AGW .........

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Rapid decarbonization means also rapid population decline, but some of our leaders would have us try to reduce emissions as they allow in more millions of foreigners. Stupid.
Others would have us stop immigration but ban abortions necessary as a last resort, and still give tax credits for ecological liabilities---kids. Again, stupid.
The US was beginning to decline with people having less kids because of over-crowding, yet because of LBJ's forced growth-only economy, and the stupid 1965 Immigration Act, all the sacrifices of millions of intelligent Americans was lost from this literal invasion of the USA.
The average IQ is too low to understand ecology, and the math and science needed to understand AGW. It wasn't before.
Then Reagan's infinite Earth Simon convinced many that everything was OK and that the more people the more resources there would be!! Stupid!!!
It then became too late for one child families forced world wide to stop the coming crash. Now it is fast becoming too late to stop the Arctic Methane Death Spiral. It would have been so much easier with a much lower population. Stupid!!
From a previous post, a friend of my Uncle Rex (Prof. Emeritus at the U of M at the time);
"Interestingly, Norman Borlaug, the “father” of the Green Revolution, noted that this effort would only buy humanity a little bit of time.
In his acceptance speech for the Nobel Peace Prize, which he won in 1970, Borlaug said “Most people still fail to comprehend the magnitude and menace of the 'Population Monster'." The New York Times wrote that he was frustrated throughout his life that governments did not do more to tackle population growth by lowering birth rates, and at one point said “If the world population continues to increase at the same rate, we will destroy the species.”"
Little did we see at the time, the extreme consequences of over-population with over-pollution......

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Miltie tried to make another thread on overpopulation and failed miserably. I am a "Growthbuster".
"Here are a few things you wouldn’t do on a spaceship:

1. Disassemble it in order to create jobs and have a robust economy
2. Pack it with more people than it can sustainably support
3. Consume more food or water than its stores can supply for the duration of the voyage
4. Smoke, fart, urinate or defecate beyond the processing ability of its systems
5. Pay attention to its maintenance just one day a year

We get a complete passenger safety briefing (often by video) before takeoff whenever we fly. This is because mistakes at 30,000 feet can be deadly. Flying through space is even more unforgiving, yet we passengers and crew on Spaceship Earth never get a passenger safety briefing. Until now:"
SPACESHIP EARTH PASSENGER SAFETY BRIEFING
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5s1i7vTSXk
"Spaceship Earth
I thought the term was originated by Buckminster Fuller, since he wrote Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth in 1969. It turns out he was but one of many writers, thinkers, and even economists who have, over the years, compared our planet to a spaceship. In 1879 political economist Henry George used the term in Progress and Poverty. British economist Mary Ward wrote a book titled Spaceship Earth in 1966."
http://www.growthbusters.org/2014/04/5- ... spaceship/
5 Ridiculous Reasons Overpopulation is Politically Incorrect
May 08, 2014

"One would have to live in a hole to be unaware of the crushing crises we face thanks to the growing scale of the human enterprise on our planet. It’s a subject we desperately need to address. Discussion of the overpopulation part of this equation, however, remains a mere whisper in public discourse. When making the film, GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, I was warned not to include the subject.

I was reminded recently of the most maddening of the reasons many steer clear of this subject. I’ll start the discussion with a list of the top five things that keep us from getting busy doing what needs to be done to avoid driving our civilization right off the overshoot cliff:
Why Smart People are Afraid to Talk About Overpopulation

1. You’ll be called a racist.
(It’s assumed you’re only concerned about birth rates in sub-Saharan Africa, where fertility rates are highest.)

2. You’ll be told to mind your own business.
(How dare you suggest I moderate my reproductivity? Stay out of my bedroom! The right to reproduce is widely considered sacred.)

3. You’ll be labeled anti-progress.
(Our Ponzi economy needs a steady supply of more workers, consumers & taxpayers.)

4. You’ll be called a selfish bastard.
(You want other people to give up parenthood so you can keep overconsuming?)

5. You’ll be called a racist, again.
(In many nations immigration accounts for most of the population growth, so if you bring up overpopulation it’s assumed you are talking about immigration and you must not respect immigrants.)"
http://www.growthbusters.org/2014/05/5- ... incorrect/
"Further, I pledge to educate my family and friends that the most important single thing they can do to help create a truly sustainable world is to voluntarily choose to have no more than one child. "
Heck, I did that in early 1967! Before the summer of love and Monterrey....
http://www.worldpopulationbalance.org/c ... ion-pledge
http://www.growthbusters.org/its-cool-t ... ll-family/
I guess I am close to Miltie's environ-metalist, seeing I really do play heavy electric guitar, often metal.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

"COMMENTARY by NPG President Donald Mann



The recent news that tens of thousands of unaccompanied alien children are illegally crossing our southern border has Americans nationwide shaking their heads. The question everyone seems to be asking is: how did this happen?

Yet the most honest response is - how could this not happen? It is the inevitable result of the White House administration's adamant refusal to enforce our nation's immigration laws. The current situation was put into play two years ago, when President Obama issued an executive directive to enact the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. Since then, the number of immigrants illegally crossing over the Mexican border has gained momentum.

In 2012, NPG warned that such a policy would only encourage more people to unlawfully enter America to share in this "amnesty." Sadly, our predictions have come true - and with tens of thousands of unaccompanied children arriving each month, the situation has gotten totally out of hand.

And it's a disaster of our government's making. Citizens around the world have heard - and seen - that young people should not fear prosecution or deportation if they can get to the U.S. Thus, parents are doing all in their power to send their children here to share in America's bounty. Unfortunately, these actions - the obvious result of our nation's failed immigration policies - are creating social, economic, and political crises which could have easily been prevented. They are the consequences of yet another short-sighted U.S. immigration policy.

And the consequences are continuing to mount. According to Fox News Latino, a Senate appropriations panel recently "voted to give the Obama administration $2 billion it requested to handle the dramatic increase in child migration." The White House also announced it was releasing $2 million in grants to retain legal counsel for the children facing deportation. Additional resources will also be needed months and years from now, as our nation faces the social costs this crisis will surely trigger as it unfolds.

In response to the situation, the National Association of Former Border Patrol Officers issued a statement that NPG wholeheartedly agrees with: "Any elected member of the Executive or Legislative Branch of the U.S. Government that has not stood up and demanded that current Immigration Law be enforced vigorously since 1986 is fully and exclusively responsible..."

As the global media focuses on the unparalleled chaos this situation has created, the hearts of all Americans go out to the children who are suffering the consequences of our negligent policies. They have become the innocent victims of immigration politics at its worst.

One commentator described this situation as a "crisis born of inaction," which is an apt description. Today's immigration crisis has been building for years - and extends far beyond the children caught up in this latest turmoil. We are aflood with short-sighted, inaccurate, and outdated immigration policies - policies which cause America's population to swell with ever-increasing numbers, and our nation's problems only worsen as a result.
With all of the focus on humanitarian and fiscal effects, the consequences of such massive immigration-driven population growth are notably absent from the dialogue. While NPG is grateful that Americans are finally discussing the real costs of immigration, we harbor some concern that - by avoiding talk of population growth - we are still "missing the boat" as a nation. Why are we not also concerned with the future of our own children - and their children? Until we enforce our existing laws and adopt responsible immigration policies to limit our population growth, this crisis is only the first of many that are sure to come.
NPG is working to bring the power of our tens of thousands of members and supporters to America's search for a solution. We rely on your activism to put the pressure on Congress - it must work to better secure our borders, enforce our immigration laws, and advance responsible policies which will put America on a responsible population path.
Through it all, we continue to depend on generous gifts from NPG members like you to help us fulfill our critical mission. Please give all you can when you receive our letters, or make a secure online donation on our website (www.NPG.org)
today. Thank you! "

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

My friend Dave still thinks it is solvable;
http://www.growthbusters.org/2014/07/wo ... es-having/

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Today, I did my civic duty to protest the human wave attack and invasion on our border.
My personal sign said "STOP the HUMAN WAVE ATTACK" , and
"More People=More emissions=GTEE"
"Collect Fines" , "Deport" , and "Pay Debt"
"ENFORCE the LAWS"

We stopped human wave attacks in Korea with heavy machine guns.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

In Jordan a quarter of their inhabitants are refugees. These kids don't amount to much. It's kind of like osmosis, populations will move from higher density to lower density. Family planning is the best answer for all women. Deal with the forced birth fascists, known inappropriately as "right to life" folks and we're half way there. El Salvador gangs incubated in LA are driving a lot of these kids here.

the confusion with the environment and the US is hard to reconcile. Deporting for example is a moot point when discussing population growth of the planet unless you are sending them to another planet.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein