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EnviroLink Forum • View topic - What is a climate denier?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:18 pm 
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Good question, what is a denier? Is it a name that advocates use to libel genuine skeptics on the issue of Anthropogenic Global Warming? Is it a nasty way of labeling someone who disagrees with their opinions?

The answer is all of the above.

The evidence is simply enormous for solar driven climate change over the last 150 years, since there are so many ways in which the sun can impact the climate. It has been documented in various peer reviewed papers that you can predict the temperature anomalies of the Earth to a high degree of accuracy by basing the prediction off of direct and indirect solar variables like the geomagnetic index and the Galactic Cosmic Ray Flux.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:15 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:22 am 
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Yes correlation is not causation, and there is a mechanism for solar activity.

Solar activity is highly correlated to various atmospheric parameters, and according to the scientists who are finding these correlations, it shows a strong solar impact on Earth's Climate.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:00 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:54 am 
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From http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-a ... ediate.htm


Solar activity & climate: is the sun causing global warming?
Link to this page
The skeptic argument...

It's the sun
"Over the past few hundred years, there has been a steady increase in the numbers of sunspots, at the time when the Earth has been getting warmer. The data suggests solar activity is influencing the global climate causing the world to get warmer." (BBC)
What the science says...
Select a level... Basic Intermediate Advanced

In the last 35 years of global warming, the sun has shown a slight cooling trend. Sun and climate have been going in opposite directions.

As supplier of almost all the energy in Earth's climate, the sun has a strong influence on climate. A comparison of sun and climate over the past 1150 years found temperatures closely match solar activity (Usoskin 2005). However, after 1975, temperatures rose while solar activity showed little to no long-term trend. This led the study to conclude, "...during these last 30 years the solar total irradiance, solar UV irradiance and cosmic ray flux has not shown any significant secular trend, so that at least this most recent warming episode must have another source."

In fact, a number of independent measurements of solar activity indicate the sun has shown a slight cooling trend since 1960, over the same period that global temperatures have been warming. Over the last 35 years of global warming, sun and climate have been moving in opposite directions. An analysis of solar trends concluded that the sun has actually contributed a slight cooling influence in recent decades (Lockwood 2008).


Figure 1: Annual global temperature change (thin light red) with 11 year moving average of temperature (thick dark red). Temperature from NASA GISS. Annual Total Solar Irradiance (thin light blue) with 11 year moving average of TSI (thick dark blue). TSI from 1880 to 1978 from Krivova et al 2007 (data). TSI from 1979 to 2009 from PMOD.

Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) used multiple linear regression to quantify and remove the effects of the El Niño Southern Oscillation (ENSO) and solar and volcanic activity from the surface and lower troposphere temperature data. They found that from 1979 to 2010, solar activity had a very slight cooling effect of between -0.014 and -0.023°C per decade, depending on the data set (Table 1, Figure 2).

Table 1: Trends in °C/decade of the signal components due to MEI, AOD and TSI in the regression of global temperature, for each of the five temperature records from 1979 to 2010.

table 3

Figure 7

Figure 2: Influence of exogenous factors on global temperature for GISS (blue) and RSS data (red). (a) MEI; (b) AOD; (c) TSI.

Like Foster and Rahmstorf, Lean and Rind (2008) performed a multiple linear regression on the temperature data, and found that while solar activity can account for about 11% of the global warming from 1889 to 2006, it can only account for 1.6% of the warming from 1955 to 2005, and had a slight cooling effect (-0.004°C per decade) from 1979 to 2005.

A number of studies have used a variety of statistical and physical approaches to determine the contribution of greenhouse gases and other effects to the observed global warming, like Lean & Rind and Foster & Rahmstorf. And like those studies, they find a relatively small solar contribution to global warming, particularly in recent decades (Figure 3).

solar attribution

Figure 3: Solar contribution to global warming according to various peer-reviewed attribution studies
Other studies on solar influence on climate

This conclusion is confirmed by many studies finding that while the sun contributed to warming in the early 20th Century, it has had little contribution (most likely negative) in the last few decades:

Huber and Knutti (2011): "Even for a reconstruction with high variability in total irradiance, solar forcing contributed only about 0.07°C (0.03-0.13°C) to the warming since 1950."

Erlykin 2009: "We deduce that the maximum recent increase in the mean surface temperature of the Earth which can be ascribed to solar activity is 14% of the observed global warming."

Benestad 2009: "Our analysis shows that the most likely contribution from solar forcing a global warming is 7 ± 1% for the 20th century and is negligible for warming since 1980."

Lockwood 2008: "It is shown that the contribution of solar variability to the temperature trend since 1987 is small and downward; the best estimate is -1.3% and the 2? confidence level sets the uncertainty range of -0.7 to -1.9%."

Lean 2008: "According to this analysis, solar forcing contributed negligible long-term warming in the past 25 years and 10% of the warming in the past 100 years..."

Lockwood 2008: "The conclusions of our previous paper, that solar forcing has declined over the past 20 years while surface air temperatures have continued to rise, are shown to apply for the full range of potential time constants for the climate response to the variations in the solar forcings."

Ammann 2007: "Although solar and volcanic effects appear to dominate most of the slow climate variations within the past thousand years, the impacts of greenhouse gases have dominated since the second half of the last century."

Lockwood 2007: "The observed rapid rise in global mean temperatures seen after 1985 cannot be ascribed to solar variability, whichever of the mechanism is invoked and no matter how much the solar variation is amplified."

Foukal 2006 concludes "The variations measured from spacecraft since 1978 are too small to have contributed appreciably to accelerated global warming over the past 30 years."

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:59 am 
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One of the better explanations of the CERN experiments in a more lay presentation.

http://theconversation.edu.au/do-cosmic ... -cern-3246

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Last edited by Snowy123 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Last edited by Snowy123 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:41 pm 
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The evidence and correlations I am showing for the solar theory are better than the correlation for CO2 and temperature.

There are significant uncertainties that still reside with GCRs-clouds and climate, I agree. If the impact of GCRs was strong enough to create a 10% decrease in Low Cloud Cover over the 20th Century (which we do not know) then it would equate to a forcing of 8 w/m^2. For comparison, the net anthropogenic radiative forcing estimated by the IPCC is 1.6 w/m^2.

That is why it is necessary to be skeptical of the IPCC position that most of the warming is anthropogenic.


Last edited by Snowy123 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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More BS waste of bandwidth for the creep denialist who recycles old debunked garbage constantly. Why don't you go to somewhere that gives a hoot about you and your kind. You deserve the Apache treatment. :twisted: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:39 pm 
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The objective lurker should also note how none of my material was addressed at all by Johnny Electriglide, and instead because he knew he had lost, his response was simply a load of ad-hominem attacks.

Sad stuff.


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