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Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both http://www.envirolink.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24193 |
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Author: | Wayne Stollings [ Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
Author: | Wayne Stollings [ Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
Author: | ralfy [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
Author: | Wayne Stollings [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:01 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
Author: | ralfy [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
Author: | ralfy [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
To recap, the claim is that capitalism does not require continual growth, and it requires only private ownership. Actually, it requires both. For more details, view http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism Again, note the key points in the first paragraph alone: - private ownership (actually, private ownership of means of production) - profit (there's your growth) - capital accumulation: again, derived from profit, and grows as profit is re-invested in businesses, leading to more production, and with more sales, more profits - competitive markets: notice the connection between this and more production: in order to compete with other businesses, one has to increase productivity or efficiency, which means lower costs, but because there's a limit to lowering costs, then the only way to compete is to increase production given the same amount of costs, which means - price system: one can keep prices low (because costs per unit go down) or make more profits per unit sold Now, why continuous growth? There are many reasons: 1. laborers who want higher wages; 2. investors who want better returns; 3. consumers who want cheaper products; 4. competition; etc. Again, note these in light of the key points given above. Can capitalist economies experience de-growth? Absolutely, given economic crises, but they eventually make up for losses by a return to economic growth. That's why economic growth via increasing money supply, resource consumption, etc., has been growing worldwide in sum and per capita. That's why various economies are also keen on looking at annual GDP growth. |
Author: | Wayne Stollings [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
Author: | Fosgate [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
Author: | ralfy [ Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:52 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
Author: | Johhny Electriglide [ Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:36 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
Author: | Wayne Stollings [ Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
Author: | Johhny Electriglide [ Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
WS: " Capitalism has been around a lot longer than forty years unless you are saying the requirement for growth is a recent addition to capitalism." Well, it is somewhat true that when LBJ and cohorts switched SSIAs into the General Fund in 1965, it forced a growth only economy. Other countries followed the practice. A completely unsustainable economy that will eventually fail. Maybe sooner than expected and without much warning before the banks close. Spending more than taken in for too long has got the debt so bad that the interest alone is a crushing burden that is accelerating toward devaluation of the dollar. Of course the government hides things, like the fact that there are now 55 million working age Americans out of work, from the latest jobs report. |
Author: | ralfy [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:31 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
Author: | ralfy [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:34 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
Author: | ralfy [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:45 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Capitalism or Nature, you can't have both |
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