EnviroLink Forum
http://www.envirolink.org/forum/

Fence sitters and those who are looking for more information
http://www.envirolink.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24371
Page 2 of 85

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

Other references to this thought ...


"... in science there is no 'knowledge', in the sense in which Plato and Aristotle understood the word, in the sense which implies finality; in science, we never have sufficient reason for the belief that we have attained the truth. ... This view means, furthermore, that we have no proofs in science (excepting, of course, pure mathematics and logic). In the empirical sciences, which alone can furnish us with information about the world we live in, proofs do not occur, if we mean by 'proof' an argument which establishes once and for ever the truth of a theory."

Sir Karl Popper, The Problem of Induction, 1953


"If you thought that science was certain — well, that is just an error on your part."

Richard Feynman (1918-1988).


"A religious creed differs from a scientific theory in claiming to embody eternal and absolutely certain truth, whereas science is always tentative, expecting that modification in its present theories will sooner or later be found necessary, and aware that its method is one which is logically incapable of arriving at a complete and final demonstration."

Bertrand Russell, Grounds of Conflict, Religion and Science, 1953.


"It is the aim of science to establish general rules which determine the reciprocal connection of objects and events in time and space. For these rules, or laws of nature, absolutely general validity is required — not proven."

Albert Einstein, in Science, Philosophy and Religion, A Symposium, 1941.

Author:  Milton Banana [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

http://freebeacon.com/ofa-gets-zero-att ... nge-rally/

Quote:
Not a single person showed up at the Georgetown waterfront Tuesday for a climate change agenda event put on by Organizing for Action, the shadowy nonprofit advocacy group born out of President Obama’s 2012 campaign, the NRCC wrote in its blog.

The event page for the “Climate Change Day of Action Rally” disappeared after rainy weather appeared to drive away whatever people planned to attend. The embarrassing showing follows the news that only one volunteer stayed for an OFA Obamacare event in Centreville, Va., last week to work the phones:

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

Milton Banana wrote:
http://freebeacon.com/ofa-gets-zero-attendance-for-climate-change-rally/

Quote:
Not a single person showed up at the Georgetown waterfront Tuesday for a climate change agenda event put on by Organizing for Action, the shadowy nonprofit advocacy group born out of President Obama’s 2012 campaign, the NRCC wrote in its blog.

The event page for the “Climate Change Day of Action Rally” disappeared after rainy weather appeared to drive away whatever people planned to attend. The embarrassing showing follows the news that only one volunteer stayed for an OFA Obamacare event in Centreville, Va., last week to work the phones:


If it written in a blog it must be true .... right? Bonjour ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmx4twCK3_I

Author:  Johhny Electriglide [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

http://www.skepticalscience.com/grand-s ... t-AGW.html

More information. =; :mrgreen:

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/scien ... ;_r=0&_r=0

An international panel of scientists has found with near certainty that human activity is the cause of most of the temperature increases of recent decades, and warns that sea levels could conceivably rise by more than three feet by the end of the century if emissions continue at a runaway pace.

Author:  Fosgate [ Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

Wayne Stollings wrote:
An international panel of scientists has found with near certainty that human activity is the cause of most of the temperature increases of recent decades, and warns that sea levels could conceivably rise by more than three feet by the end of the century if emissions continue at a runaway pace.


There are too few that know better, even less capable and/or willing to do something about it, not that it would make a difference. They'll just have to sit and watch it happen.

Author:  Milton Banana [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

http://notrickszone.com/2013/09/02/now- ... on-debate/

Author:  Milton Banana [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

http://notrickszone.com/2013/09/02/now- ... on-debate/

Quote:
This is a major setback for the global warming alarmists who want to make climate change the central issue of our time, such as Professors Hans-Joachim Schellnhuber and Ottmar Edenhofer of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research. If that doesn’t tell them where they really stand on the list of Germany’s priorities and the things that are really important for Germans, then they are living in a fantasy world. At Twitter, a number of German greens and activists grumbled bitterly that climate change had been ignored in the debate.


I'll tell you why this is politically toxic in German politics. Since the Fukushima the Germans have drastically increased their transition to green energy while shutting down their nuclear plants. The price of electricity spiked. Hundreds of thousands of German households had the electricity shut off because of lack of payment. If you calculate each house hold is a family of four that means millions of Germans are living without power in Germany.

http://notrickszone.com/2012/02/23/6000 ... -alarming/

http://www.thelocal.de/money/20120222-40893.html

There you go fence sitters. A real world example of the what happens in a green based economy.

Author:  Johhny Electriglide [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

The German anti-any-nuclear fails with the logic of the Gen IV waste using safe design. The whole anti-nuclear BS crowd includes in their hatred the very technology that will take base-load power and use up nuclear waste from Gens I, II, & III, a win win scenario.
As far as the importance of reducing emissions 90% in 9 years max, it is number one with things that can be done to stop thermageddon or AETM and its huge ELE in 3 to 500 years at the rate the oceans are warming with the atmosphere. It means the extinction of ~87% of all species including humans. So there is plenty of reason to act fast and in enough quantity to get this reduction.
However, it is the people like you, and the business as usual crowd, that will stop enough emissions reductions in time to prevent it. You condemn the future suffering people and our species, to death, along with most other life, for two Malenkovich cycles, and ~3 million years to increase species diversity to what we had 10K years ago.
If humanity is lucky, Katla will blow soon and take away up to two growing seasons and enough particulates to cool the Earth temporarily. Then not enough people to continue the emissions insanity. The population crash of 2050 or sooner becomes much sooner, and in the end, saves our biosphere and species.
A collapsing world economy could also trigger a die-off. Cascadia and LaPalma tsunamis and earthquakes could disrupt and collapse the US economy, with the world following into deep long depression, with mass die-offs of people. A solar coronal mass discharge that hits the Earth while the magnetic field is now weakening toward reversal, could also do it.
It is really something that for the biosphere and humanity to be "lucky" requires a 90% die-off from a massive geologic or cosmic event, or financial meltdown, all within a decade. Very possible scenarios that would prevent thermageddon and extinction.
However, we can not depend on them, and must attempt to live green with emissions down 90% by 2023. It won't do the future any good if these events happen after complete crossing of the tundra methane self release point, or the open ocean warming to oceanic methane hydrate deposits unstoppably releasing by themselves deeper and deeper, with no more human HGHG input necessary to lead to thermal max(i.e. after 2023). I had said Yellowstone would also do it, maybe too much, but isn't close to due for 2K years, by which time its 10*F temperature reduction for up to ten years will not be enough to reverse the AETM which will be +29 to 32*F by then (with a resequestration time of ~230,000 years).
The fence sitters looking for more information will not like this news, and probably really can't understand it, so will do nothing, making it impossible not to rely on these other hard means to maybe stop even worse down the road.
In fact, I would say, even worse is coming, and sooner than you think. The party is just about over. IMHO

Author:  Milton Banana [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

Quote:
It means the extinction of ~87% of all species including humans. So there is plenty of reason to act fast and in enough quantity to get this reduction.


I have pointed out that leftist policies are hurting the poor in Germany. Leftist policies promise the world to the poor don't they? Here we have a committed leftist saying f##k the poor for the benefit of future humanity. Fence sitters hear me well. Leftists politics are not about helping the poor. They are about cementing power for tyrants. And the green movement is at the heart of leftist politics. Understand exactly what you are supporting.

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

Milton Banana wrote:
Quote:
It means the extinction of ~87% of all species including humans. So there is plenty of reason to act fast and in enough quantity to get this reduction.


I have pointed out that leftist policies are hurting the poor in Germany. Leftist policies promise the world to the poor don't they? Here we have a committed leftist saying f##k the poor for the benefit of future humanity. Fence sitters hear me well. Leftists politics are not about helping the poor. They are about cementing power for tyrants. And the green movement is at the heart of leftist politics. Understand exactly what you are supporting.


Politics are not science. Science gives the warning and the political entities ignore the long term threats in favor of the short term benefits far too often. At some point there will be suffering no matter what and that suffering will be hitting the poor hardest regardless. Higher prices, decreased supplies, increased health threat, increased discomfort, and on and on all impact the poor worse and will always do so.

Author:  Milton Banana [ Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

I didn't have the heart to go with the story about how global warming caused Syria's problems. We'll go with this one instead.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tions.html

Quote:
Some eminent scientists now believe the world is heading for a period of cooling that will not end until the middle of this century – a process that would expose computer forecasts of imminent catastrophic warming as dangerously misleading.


Author:  Johhny Electriglide [ Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

http://greedylyingbastards.com/

Poor Milton, thinking all green, sustainability seeking people are leftists.
I'm a registered Republican and Deep Green. Remember Teddy Roosevelt or even Ike :mrgreen: ---they were my guys, not Reagan or bushes.
Nixon was better than them(Clean Air and Water Acts, EPA) :mrgreen: and far better than Obama the socialist. Just because some lefties stole the environmental subject and some dumb Republicans have no belief in overpopulation right in their face =P~ or hot weather worse than ever in their lives if they could but remember. :eh: #-o
The corporations are trying to run and ruin the country, especially with so-called reform that is a lie. Corrupt government is not just one sided, and most special interests are not interested in enforcing laws or the betterment of America. :evil:

Author:  Milton Banana [ Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

Okay, fence sitters. If AGW were really happening how could it be that this is happening?

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/09/14/ ... on-record/

Quote:
Earth Gains A Record Amount Of Sea Ice In 2013 — ‘Earth has gained 19,000 Manhattans of sea ice since this date last year, the largest increase on record’


Keep in mind that it was this year that some from the "religion" predicted the arctic to be ice free. Read about that ridiculous claim here.

http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/ice- ... forecasts/

And here.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/wryheat/2013/0 ... 2013-oops/

Author:  Dingo [ Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fence sitters and those who are looking for more informa

Denialists never seem to get variation within a long term trend. I'm coming to wonder whether it is some kind of genetic thing, since this mindless error in thought process appears so persistent. AGW, including ice melt, does not go up in a straight line. It's more like a trending upward free form run of sine curves. The fairly consistent rise in ocean level would be the most obvious global warming metric.

Page 2 of 85 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/