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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:34 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
A government scientist is a government scientist fence sitters.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... an-resigns



An ignorant fool is an ignorant fool too, but when politics are involved the truth can be easily ignored. That is why this post was quoting a political blog.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:36 am 
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Trouble in River City fence sitters.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Lond ... -Consensus

Quote:
The American Physical Society (APS) has signalled a dramatic turnabout in its position on "climate change" by appointing three notorious climate skeptics to its panel on public affairs (POPA).

They are:

Professor Richard Lindzen, formerly Alfred P Sloan Professor of Meteorology at Massachussetts Institute of Technology (MIT), a highly regarded physicist who once described climate change alarmism on The Larry King Show as "mainly just like little kids locking themselves in dark closets to see how much they can scare each other and themselves."

John Christy, Professor of Atmospheric Science at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, who has written: "I'm sure the majority (but not all) of my IPCC colleagues cringe when I say this, but I see neither the developing catastrophe nor the smoking gun proving that human activity is to blame for most of the warming we see."

Judith Curry, Chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at Georgia Tech, a former Warmist (and still a self-described "luke warmer") who has infuriated many of her more extremist colleagues by defending skeptics and by testifying to the US House Subcommittee on the Environment that the uncertainties in forecasting climate science are much greater than the alarmists will admit.

As Anthony Watts has noted, this is news guaranteed to make a Warmist's head explode.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:41 am 
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Fence sitters these allegations have been going on for years. No big surprise here we all know this has been going on. Plato. The Nobel Lie.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/21/scien ... edirect=no

Quote:
A group of 30 scientists, including Nobel laureates, have written that “politicians” have hijacked the scientific peer review process and hurt innovation.

The scientists from around the world, including Britain and the U.S., write that “[a]gencies claiming to support blue-skies research use peer review, of course, discouraging open-ended inquiries and serious challenges to prevailing orthodoxies,” which impedes scientific progress.

Before the 1970s, according to the scientists, researchers could be sure to get “modest funding” to pursue questions that were not addressed by mainstream scientists or ran up against the consensus. Such freedom allowed scientists to discover “the transistor, the maser-laser, the electronics and telecommunications revolutions, nuclear power, biotechnology and medical diagnostics galore.”



Quote:
“After 1970, politicians substantially expanded academic sectors,” write 30 scientists, including Nobel laureates Dudley Herschbach of Harvard University and Sir Richard Roberts of New England Biolabs.

“Peer review’s uses allowed the rise of priorities, impact etc, and is now virtually unavoidable. Applicants’ proposals must convince their peers that they serve national policies and are the best possible uses of resources,” the scientists continued in their letter to the editor in the UK Guardian newspaper. “Success rates are about 25%, and strict rules govern resubmissions. Rejected proposals are usually lost. Industry too has lost its taste for the unpredictable.”

Complaints that the scientific establishment is preventing dissenting voices from getting funding or published has been a major controversy among climate science. Dr. Richard Lindzen of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology has argued that “global warming alarmism” has been damaged the integrity of science.

“Global climate alarmism has been costly to society, and it has the potential to be vastly more costly,” Lindzen wrote. “It has also been damaging to science, as scientists adjust both data and even theory to accommodate politically correct positions.”

“The scientific community is clearly becoming less ambiguous in separating views on warming from totally unreasonable fears for both the planet and mankind,” he added. “Environmental advocates are responding by making increasingly extreme claims. Politicians are recognizing that these claims are implausible, and are backing away from both the issue and support for climate science.”



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:05 pm 
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JUST WHO ARE THESE SO CALLED FENCE SITTERS?
Not one has responded, but you do have the conversion of a former skeptic thread.
:razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz:
#-o ](*,) :crazy: :-k [-( :- \:D/ :mrgreen:
This is from 6 months ago, so this whole thread is behind.
"Right on, Dingo. Overpopulation is the root cause and driver of almost every environmental problem. You can throw in greed, stupidity, religions and cultures as aggravating factors. Unfortunately, with overpopulation itself, it is mathematically too late to prevent the crash on the 2040s. Time ran out at the end of last century for one child families universally accepted and obeyed, to have a sustainable population before crashing.
With AGW, we still have 9 years(maybe less) to reduce emissions 90% and avoid thermal maximum and its ELE. That is it theoretically can be done the way Hansen describes in "Storms of My Grandchildren". Knowing people a long time, they will probably do too little too late, and our species will go extinct with millions of others.
Then you have the illogic of the anti-any-nuclear crowd, the illogic of stopping animal cruelty but not caring if they go extinct from AGW. You have green trinket profiteers thinking they are making a real difference, when it is so little as to be a joke. Some just concentrate on one aspect which does need to change, like water use, food waste, soil conservation, green power of various specialties, and educating women for health and family planning. The reduce, re-use, and recycle mantra of sustainable living long term on this planet.
Still, nothing makes much difference after the tipping point of methane turnover in 2023 is fully crossed. Survivors must face a hotter and hotter world with rapidly moving grow lines and ecosystems collapses. Ecosystem services gone, species we rely on extinct, the oceans ruined, and caves, with still cool water, refuges until starvation. Underground fortresses, will they last over 100K years? If they did, would humans be different? Will they be able to survive with so few species left? I think they would end up overheated and starved, too. A multi-generational spaceship to a possible livable planet? What if it isn't there, or is full of deadly organisms to humans? Will our saved DNA and seeds last over 230K years until conditions are better? Who will unlock the storage and plant them? No, and no one."

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:10 am 
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What do you think fence sitters?

http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/03/04/ ... 10-months/

Quote:
Seventeen and a half years. Not a flicker of global warming. The RSS satellite record, the first of the five global-temperature datasets to report its February value, shows a zero trend for an impressive 210 months.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:15 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
What do you think fence sitters?

http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/03/04/ ... 10-months/

Quote:
Seventeen and a half years. Not a flicker of global warming. The RSS satellite record, the first of the five global-temperature datasets to report its February value, shows a zero trend for an impressive 210 months.


Quote:
By Lord Christopher Monckton


What do you think about the information from a politician who cannot keep from getting in trouble for misrepresenting himself? When the source is this questionable do you really want to trust it?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:51 am 
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A lesson for the United States fence sitters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Zp4Qp ... e=youtu.be

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Milton Banana wrote:
A lesson for the United States fence sitters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Zp4Qp ... e=youtu.be


From a failed politician to a Christian televangelist? Not even a recent reference either.

More recent information from a more reputable news source.


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... icity-2013

Wind power was Spain's top source of electricity in 2013

Remarkable new figures from Spain's grid operator have revealed that greenhouse gas emissions from the country's power sector are likely to have fallen 23.1% last year, as power generation from wind farms and hydroelectric plants soared.

Red Eléctrica de España (REE) released a preliminary report on the country's power system late last month, revealing that for "the first time ever, [wind power] contributed most to the annual electricity demand coverage". According to the figures, wind turbines met 21.1% of electricity demand on the Spanish peninsular, narrowly beating the region's fleet of nuclear reactors, which provided 21% of power.

In total, wind farms are estimated to have generated 53,926 gigawatt hours of electricity, up 12% on 2012, while high levels of rainfall meant hydroelectric power output was 16% higher than the historical average, climbing to 32,205GWh.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:51 pm 
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Fence sitters this just gets better and better.

http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2014/ ... imate.html

Quote:
A new paper published in Geophysical Research Letters finds the Transient Climate Response to cumulative CO2 emissions is less than half that claimed by the IPCC. According to the authors, the transient climate response is 0.76–1.04 °C [mean 0.9C], compared to 1.2-2.6C [mean 1.9C] in the 2007 IPCC report, an exaggeration of 111%.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:54 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
Fence sitters this just gets better and better.

http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2014/ ... imate.html

Quote:
A new paper published in Geophysical Research Letters finds the Transient Climate Response to cumulative CO2 emissions is less than half that claimed by the IPCC. According to the authors, the transient climate response is 0.76–1.04 °C [mean 0.9C], compared to 1.2-2.6C [mean 1.9C] in the 2007 IPCC report, an exaggeration of 111%.


And what of all of the claims made concerning the inability to model the climate? It seems that if the result fits your predetermined belief you will accept it and if not the whole concept is unscientific. The science part comes from other scientists being able to reproduce the results and form an agreement to the conclusions. That is what has happened over the years and will be how science continues to work. Blogs, on the other hand, just tend to give you what you are looking for. If you are looking for science you will find it, but if you are looking for support for a conclusion you will also find it ... regardless of the science.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:04 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
What do you think fence sitters?

http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/03/04/ ... 10-months/

Quote:
Seventeen and a half years. Not a flicker of global warming. The RSS satellite record, the first of the five global-temperature datasets to report its February value, shows a zero trend for an impressive 210 months.


The atmosphere only represents a small fraction of the total heat content of the Earth. The total heat content of the Earth has continued to increase over the last seventeen and a half years through continued ocean heating, with continued OHC accumulation and Sea Level Rise.

Image

From Church et al. 2011.

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Last edited by Snowy123 on Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:07 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
Fence sitters this just gets better and better.

http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2014/ ... imate.html

Quote:
A new paper published in Geophysical Research Letters finds the Transient Climate Response to cumulative CO2 emissions is less than half that claimed by the IPCC. According to the authors, the transient climate response is 0.76–1.04 °C [mean 0.9C], compared to 1.2-2.6C [mean 1.9C] in the 2007 IPCC report, an exaggeration of 111%.


I would be interested to see what their results for ECS are. That would fit with my hypothesis that ECS is on the lower side of the sensitivity consensus of 1.5-4.5 K, since while the surface has warmed less than modeled over the last 20 years, the oceans have accumulated heat faster than modeled over the last 20 years, as is seen with faster sea level rise than expected. This could mean that the oceans are better at sequestering heat than modeled.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:50 pm 
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Snowy I've been checking in. Derek would really like to talk you. He finds it odd and disappointing you never once mentioned you're change of heart to him or anyone else. He would really like to talk to you about this paragraph.

Quote:
I know that Derek doesn't believe there is any sort of Greenhouse effect at all, and I find that viewpoint to not be scientifically backed up. I believe he is part of the "Slaying the Sky Dragon" folks. Anthony Watts did an excellent demonstration where he disproved one of the Slayer's claims observationally. He makes an excellent point at the end. He says, "And it makes you wonder, if they get something as simple as this wrong, what about the rest of their science?"



Okay fence sitters I'm going to depart from reason for this post. Did you ever read something that you really wished you had written.

http://climateofsophistry.com/2014/03/29/earth-hour/

Quote:
Anyone who engages in this bullshit is an enemy of humanity, a traitor to the existence of mind. Let it be very clear that those who wish to engage in this “Earth Hour” propaganda, are an enemy of the human race, are an enemy of the existence of mind, and that you, and us, can not co-exist in this world. You are disgusting mental and moral degenerates and you deserve what you ask for: lights out.

Lights out is exactly what you’re asking for.


Remember fence sitters if these cultist get their way it will not be up to you freely decide to turn your lights out. That freedom will be lost.

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Last edited by Wayne Stollings on Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote violated basic civil discourse.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:15 pm 
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I would say that guy is an enemy of humanity. The only real fence sitter was Snowlover, and he has seen enough to change his mind.
"The world's leading climate scientists gathered in Japan on Tuesday to begin hashing out the final details of a "grim" climate report, which both leaked drafts and those familiar with its contents say will call on policy makers to take immediate action or face a climate future that will otherwise be marked by widespread ecological and human catastrophe.

Of those harsh challenges, the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report—according to a draft version of the leaked earlier this year— will show that the four degrees Celsius rise that we are currently careening towards will undoubtedly cause increasing natural disasters, including: more violent storms, forest fires, devastating droughts, flooding, widespread hunger, disease, and a rise in ocean levels by up to a meter.

However, as Kaisa Kosonen explains on the Greenpeace blog Tuesday, the difference in their latest report from previous work by the IPCC and other similar warnings from the global scientific community is its emphasis on the stark "choice" now before humanity.

This latest message from the IPCC, Kosonen writes, is that people—both inside and outside of government— either "reduce and manage the risks ahead and do what’s needed to keep warming as far below 2 degrees Celsius as possible, or we continue to do too little too late, drifting from crisis to crisis and on towards a disastrous 4 degrees world."

"The IPCC will paint a picture of both these possible futures," Kosonen notes."
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/03/25-3

What they do not say is "methane turnover", and THAT is the only mistake. It is a very dire consequence of human inability collectively, to see ahead in the long term, the effects of overpopulation, pollution, and depletion.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:26 pm 
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Fence sitters it looks like the IPCC is walking it back a bit. Seem credibility is on their meager little minds of late. This will no doubt anger the Cultists.

http://judithcurry.com/2014/03/30/ipcc- ... draft-spm/

Quote:
The report may irritate politicians in poor countries who look to blame climate change caused by the rich world for the ills of their people and want to demand reparations. But it may also dismay those who want to cite other factors to “prove” that climate change is never to blame. The world is more complicated, the scientists who prepared the draft conclude. The lesson of their report is that climate change will be implicated in a vast array of global ills, but it will rarely be the sole cause.


Quote:
The 2007 report was almost all about the impacts of climate change. Most of this report, and in particular most of the summary for policymakers, is about resilience and adaptation to inevitable climate change.


Could this be the beginning of the IPCC understanding the natural variability of climate?

Quote:
Some nightmare scenarios are robustly defused. Past IPCC reports have warned that there might be as many as 50 million “climate refugees” around the world, who will flee drought, rising tides and spreading deserts. This report is set to dismiss that idea.


Dismissing doomsday scenarios? If this continues no doubt the Cultists will throw these people overboard too.

Quote:
Global warming is said to be threatening thousands of animal and plant species with extinction. That, at least, is what the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has been predicting for years.

But the UN climate body now says it is no longer so certain. The second part of the IPCC’s new assessment report is due to be presented next Monday in Yokohama, Japan. On the one hand, a classified draft of the report notes that a further “increased extinction risk for a substantial number of species during and beyond the 21st century” is to be expected. On the other hand, the IPCC admits that there is no evidence climate change has led to even a single species becoming extinct thus far.


Another huge back track from previous reports. The Cultist are not going to be happy with this. This means one and only one thing. Fund raising must be suffering as a result of past extremist reports.

Quote:
If the leaked draft is reflected in the published report, it will constitute the formal moving on of the debate from the past, futile focus upon “mitigation” to a new debate about resilience and adaptation.


Translation. We're getting our ass kicked the way we have framed this debate. We must reframe the debate and try again.

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