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 Post subject: This is progress?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:06 pm 
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I was just looking at an interview on a China-for-English-speakers TV show. They were discussing China's progress in moving off coal. An expert projection was offered that it will go from roughly 70% energy source from coal now to roughly 50% sourced by 2060. Wow! And that doesn't even include oil and natural gas.

When you consider that China is supposed to be on the cutting edge of every alternative to fossil fuel - solar, wind, hydro, nuclear etc. one has to wonder whether these visions of major worldwide energy conversion are not just pipe dreams.
----------------------------------------------
Here is an authoritative projection of the energy sources for electrical production in 1940. Does that change anything?

Image

And then there is this, substantially different.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: This is progress?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:59 am 
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Very true Dingo, this is hardly progress. Disgusting.
The CO2 emitted in China is mostly a result of production of goods for the western world, our buying choices literally fuel those coal generators. Had we been slightly wiser and not cultivated such a fascination with cheap crap maybe we would not have allowed the destruction of our manufacturing sector. There would still be GHG emitted to create the products, but on for the most part better quality products. In the past when we valued quality over style our manufactured goods had a longer lifespan, therefore a smaller GHG impact per unit produced.
The big issue I see at play here is greed. Our greed drives demand for ever cheaper goods, no matter what the consequences. Corporate greed drives demand for ever lower costs per unit , that is their job.
In order to drive demand for their goods most manufactures employ designed obsolescence, planned failure points combined with clever designs to hinder future repairs.

Why is all this happening? Because we keep buying all this crap.
If we want to locate the source of those rising emissions in China most of us need look no further than the mirror.


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 Post subject: Re: This is progress?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Farmer "Our greed drives demand for ever cheaper goods, no matter what the consequences."

How about our need? Overpopulation from immigration has driven down wages and has millions out of work at any pay. Other crap has gone up in cost, like health care.
The long term tendency observed is that generally the lowest spectrum of IQ breed the most, some from "genetic greed", and this dumbing down has affected how many can actually see the consequences of what they do.
This has led to the impossibility of lowering emissions enough and in time to prevent global terminal extinction. At least without a population crash to <10% within 8 years, and there still is the 50% chance that we are already past that point of no return. :-({|=
:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: This is progress?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:59 am 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Farmer "Our greed drives demand for ever cheaper goods, no matter what the consequences."

How about our need? Overpopulation from immigration has driven down wages and has millions out of work at any pay. Other crap has gone up in cost, like health care.
The long term tendency observed is that generally the lowest spectrum of IQ breed the most, some from "genetic greed", and this dumbing down has affected how many can actually see the consequences of what they do.
This has led to the impossibility of lowering emissions enough and in time to prevent global terminal extinction. At least without a population crash to <10% within 8 years, and there still is the 50% chance that we are already past that point of no return. :-({|=
:mrgreen:

I should have said drives our demand for ever cheaper useless goods, haha. We seem to be living in the age of entitlement as opposed to enlightenment.
Yes overconcentration of people has put many strains on the pre existing inhabitants of many areas, but that is just a symptom of our economy based upon growth and greed. It is in our nature and all of nature. Most organisms given a happy environment will expand their population to the brink of extinction or just a bit past that point. We just happen to have brains that allow some of us(not all) to realize these things faster than bacteria does.
So why can't we act for our mutual benefit?
Yes we have little if any time left to make sweeping changes to leave something for the generations yet to come, much information says too late, but should we not still try to wake the others before our house burns down?


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 Post subject: Re: This is progress?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:09 pm 
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Kind of like Krypton and send off our selected children to various potentially amenable planets.
There could be a way that triggers a 90+% population crash that doesn't irradiate the biosphere. Those due geologic disasters, or economic collapse.
I think investigation of trying to cause at least one super volcanic eruption, for a Toba style event is the best bet.
:mrgreen:

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“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


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 Post subject: Re: This is progress?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:00 am 
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But I like that cheap crap! I love going to Walmart and buying a mixer for $20, throwing it away in 6 months, and then buying a different one from Lowes for $40 and having it last 5 years. Personally, I miss the days when appliances lasted 50 years. In my opinion, they're programmed to die.


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 Post subject: Re: This is progress?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:59 pm 
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Chinese goods are cheap for two reasons; 1) overpopulation has driven down wages to 1/10th the US, and 2) China has easier coal, pollution, and materials regulations.
People affected by the forced overpopulation of the USA by the 1965 Immigration Act, now actually increasing their per capita pollution by buying from high carbon sources like China and high transportation emissions like from overseas and far away.
Raising one country's standard of living while another keeps trying to hold its own, still results in even more emissions, not the 90+% reduction we need in about 7 years to have a 50% chance of stopping Global Terminal Extinction.
This is not progress toward that goal of stopping thermageddon at all.
:mrgreen:

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


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 Post subject: Re: This is progress?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:29 am 
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Here is a recent set of projections from China with their promise to employ an accelerated approach to lowering CO2. It appears to have CO2 emissions in 2050 at roughly where they were in 2015, not much to jump up and down about.

Image

And this gives you a projection of the energy source mix of that accelerated approach up to 2050. Coal down, although still considerable, everything else, including oil and gas, up. I'm surprised hydro is so little given all the publicity around the 3 gorges dam project and its upstream counterparts. Also the biggest rise in the nonfossil fuel sources is nuclear, a technology that whatever its promise continues to flunk any free market test, not to mention favorable PR.

Image


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