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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:24 pm 
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http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/time-for-cli ... -on-strike

Late last night Yokohama time, the world’s scientists did once more what they’ve done so many times in the past: issued a thumping big report demonstrating that climate change poses the greatest danger our civilization has ever faced. These regular analyses have been conducted since 1995 under the auspices of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change – by now the papers, indexes, footnotes and drafts would fill the Superdome.

They’ve said it with graphs, they’ve said it with tables. They’ve offered color-coded guides to future decades. They’ve told us about basic science and, when that didn’t work, they’ve tried to explain it in terms anyone could understand. The latest summary, for instance, shows that most studies of food production in a warming world forecast dire trouble – some, by century’s end, show a 50% reduction in crop yields. Both drought and flood will keep on increasing, the number of refugees will climb sharply, and we risk “civil wars and intergroup violence.”

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:48 pm 
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And yet this is what Americans think of the issue.

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-m ... al-warming

Quote:
Just 34 percent of adults said they worried “a great deal” about “global warming,” about the same as last year. Meanwhile, 35 percent said they felt the same way about “climate change,” just a 2 percentage points more than last year.

“A major challenge facing scientists and organizations that view global warming as a major threat to humanity is that average citizens express so little concern about the issue,” Gallup said.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/0 ... 92182.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 21901.html

Quote:
Gallup reports that the economy, federal spending and health care were the most-pressing issues for Americans. Only race relations inspired less worry than climate change. Those two issues received concern responses of “only a little” or “not at all” from a majority of those polled.

By comparison, more than half of respondents rated 12 other issues as matters they worry about at least “a fair amount.” Last month, Secretary of State John Kerry made headlines by calling climate change as big a national security threat as terrorism, but those surveyed appear to disagree: The possibility of a future terrorist attack in the U.S. was among the 13 issues a majority of respondents fret about a “fair amount” or “a great deal.”


Yes, by all means go on strike. You are not convincing anyone. After 30 years of beating this dead horse you're no better off in the public square then you were in the 1980's. You are failing in this debate. Completely and utterly. :-({|=

Why is this? The people are smarter than you think. They see public trust being abused. They see the methods being hidden from their view. They see the FOIA's being ignored. They see the emails threatening to destroy evidence and emails. They see billions of their tax dollars being wasted on renewable companies that go out of business. They see their gas, electric, and water bills going up and up. They see the coal industry being put out of business. They see pipelines that would drive down the cost of gas not being built. They see the oil companies driven out of the Gulf only to see the Chinese and the Russians flocking to the area that was abandoned. They see scientists refusing to share their work for replication. They see climate model after model predict temperatures much higher than what comes to pass. They see you talking down to them as if they couldn't possibly understand. They don't like that. They see temperature stations placed on roof tops. They see this carbon offset scam for what it is. These billions are going into someone's pockets somewhere, but there is no accounting of it whatsoever. The people have concluded that "Global Warming" is the biggest gravy-train ever ridden by con-men. They have witnessed scare mongering tactics that never come to pass for decades, and they're tired of it, and they find this campaign offensive and stupid. They don't believe you anymore. You have squandered the public trust because you just can't help yourselves. They see you reaching into their lives to regulate their cars, homes, ovens, refrigerators, light bulbs, and toilets ect ect. and they don't like that. They see these scientists and politicians who impose this crap on them living high on the hog in their mansions making millions while they struggle to make ends meet. They see. They see these people jet setting and flying all over the world staying at the best hotels and eating the best food and drinking the best of the best. They see these same people telling them they're the problem and they should do with less. Settle for the scraps from table of government and the left. They see and they don't like it. They know this planet have naturally warmed and cooled long before they took over. They know what you're pushing. Higher taxes and much less freedom coupled with bigger government and a smaller private sector. They're tired of the notion of only you the chosen cultist know what's best for them. They see, and they don't like it. So, feel free. Take a break and go off into a corner and pout because you're losing. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:28 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
And yet this is what Americans think of the issue.

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-m ... al-warming

Quote:
Just 34 percent of adults said they worried “a great deal” about “global warming,” about the same as last year. Meanwhile, 35 percent said they felt the same way about “climate change,” just a 2 percentage points more than last year.

“A major challenge facing scientists and organizations that view global warming as a major threat to humanity is that average citizens express so little concern about the issue,” Gallup said.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/0 ... 92182.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 21901.html

Quote:
Gallup reports that the economy, federal spending and health care were the most-pressing issues for Americans. Only race relations inspired less worry than climate change. Those two issues received concern responses of “only a little” or “not at all” from a majority of those polled.

By comparison, more than half of respondents rated 12 other issues as matters they worry about at least “a fair amount.” Last month, Secretary of State John Kerry made headlines by calling climate change as big a national security threat as terrorism, but those surveyed appear to disagree: The possibility of a future terrorist attack in the U.S. was among the 13 issues a majority of respondents fret about a “fair amount” or “a great deal.”


Yes, by all means go on strike. You are not convincing anyone. After 30 years of beating this dead horse you're no better off in the public square then you were in the 1980's. You are failing in this debate. Completely and utterly. :-({|=

Why is this? The people are smarter than you think.



Far from it. The general population is unconcerned with much passed their next pay check in future planning and thanks to the disinformation from the political conservatives and the poor education in the sciences the general population is easily confused.

Look at how many believe in evolution compared to creationism or ghosts or witches :

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRo ... fault.aspx

Belief in Darwin's theory of evolution, however, while well below levels recorded for belief in God, miracles and heaven, is up in comparison to 2005 findings (47%, up from 42%).

The survey also finds that 42% of Americans believe in ghosts, 36% each believe in creationism and UFOs, 29% believe in astrology, 26% believe in witches and 24% believe in reincarnation - that they were once another person.




Quote:
They see public trust being abused. They see the methods being hidden from their view. They see the FOIA's being ignored. They see the emails threatening to destroy evidence and emails. They see billions of their tax dollars being wasted on renewable companies that go out of business.


No, they see folks like you CLAIMING this.

Quote:
They see their gas, electric, and water bills going up and up.


Along with all of their other bills, which has happened throughout modern history.

Quote:
They see the coal industry being put out of business.


By cheaper and cleaner fuels ..... that is supposed to be the way the market works is it not?

Quote:
They see pipelines that would drive down the cost of gas not being built.


Because the people do not want the land soaked in crude oil.

Quote:
They see the oil companies driven out of the Gulf only to see the Chinese and the Russians flocking to the area that was abandoned.


Really? You have some real references to this? The problems in the Gulf and the huge losses to the people living on the Gulf coast seem to have been ignored in thie propaganda event of yours.

Quote:
They see scientists refusing to share their work for replication. They see climate model after model predict temperatures much higher than what comes to pass.


Again, they see people like you making the claims as part of the attempt to impact the research.

Quote:
They see you talking down to them as if they couldn't possibly understand.


Most do not, which is part of the problem.

Quote:
They don't like that.


Yet they still want to make the science education less important.

Quote:
They see temperature stations placed on roof tops. They see this carbon offset scam for what it is. These billions are going into someone's pockets somewhere, but there is no accounting of it whatsoever.


Again, they see the claims people like you make but the real facts do not support what you are telling them. The problem is they can believe the lies you repeat just as easy as the real facts.

Quote:
The people have concluded that "Global Warming" is the biggest gravy-train ever ridden by con-men. They have witnessed scare mongering tactics that never come to pass for decades, and they're tired of it, and they find this campaign offensive and stupid. They don't believe you anymore. You have squandered the public trust because you just can't help yourselves. They see you reaching into their lives to regulate their cars, homes, ovens, refrigerators, light bulbs, and toilets ect ect. and they don't like that. They see these scientists and politicians who impose this crap on them living high on the hog in their mansions making millions while they struggle to make ends meet.


They see scientists living in mansions? You are more ignorant than I thought. They do not see the people funding the "skeptics" making their BILLIONS by delaying action.

Quote:
They see. They see these people jet setting and flying all over the world staying at the best hotels and eating the best food and drinking the best of the best.


No, they may be told this and may want to believe it, but then again they believe in witches too.

Quote:
They see these same people telling them they're the problem and they should do with less. Settle for the scraps from table of government and the left. They see and they don't like it. They know this planet have naturally warmed and cooled long before they took over.


Yes, it did and in the process most of the species living on the planet became extinct. That is the concern for climate change as it has never been good for the majority of the life on the planet and humans are one of the majority life forms that will be significantly affected.

Quote:
They know what you're pushing. Higher taxes and much less freedom coupled with bigger government and a smaller private sector. They're tired of the notion of only you the chosen cultist know what's best for them. They see, and they don't like it. So, feel free. Take a break and go off into a corner and pout because you're losing. :lol:


Being able to lie and mislead is hard to beat when one uses complete honesty, but the history books will tell the story provided there are any around in the future.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:30 am 
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Well, Wayne I don't know what to tell you. Your attitude is exactly why know one believes or trusts you, and why you systematically can't convince a majority of the people. Your last post demonstrates that fact. Its not your fault. Its not the fault of science. Its the stupid peoples fault. Keep it up is all the advice I can give you.


http://www.thespec.com/news-story/44474 ... ce-planet/

Quote:
Yet this staggering outlay of time and trouble has failed to move public opinion and public policy very far. Climate-change activists are exasperated beyond endurance by the gullibility of the people, the willful stupidity of climate-change "deniers," the cynicism of energy producers and other corporate interests, and the dithering incapacity of our democratic institutions.

Doubtless there's some truth in those complaints, but I'd give more weight to another theory. The main reason for the disconnect between the science and the public is the gross tactical incompetence of the climate-science community, as it's called, and its political champions.


The willful stupid. Yes, you're going to convince a majority with that attitude. Keep that up.

Quote:
I take seriously the harms that man-made climate change might cause. Action does make sense: It's a question of insuring against risk. I'm for a gradually escalating carbon tax and for ample public support for other mitigation and adaptation efforts — including more nuclear power and research and development on cheap alternative fuels. But this cause isn't advanced by exaggerating what is known in order to scare people into action, nor by denouncing everybody who disagrees with such proposals as evil or idiotic.

The scientists themselves — some of them, at least — are partly to blame. They chose to become political advocates, no doubt out of a sincere belief that policies needed to change a lot and at once. But scientist-advocates can't expect to be seen as objective or disinterested. Once they're suspected of spinning the science or opining on questions outside their area of expertise, as political advocacy is bound to require, they lose authority. And it doesn't help when scientists who express such reservations are cast out of the mainstream. You expect "you're either with us or against us" from politicians, but not from scientists.


This guy is on to something with his call not to "scare" or "denounce" those who disagree as "evil" or "idiotic." But, you didn't hear that from me. But, like I said you can't help yourself. Your side just can't. Your problem is you're connected with politicians. That's who you want to do your policy biding, and the people don't trust politicians and that is the lynch pin to your problem.

Quote:
The rules for politicians are different. They're expected to spin: It goes with the job. Still, is it too much to ask that they spin to good effect? You don't persuade the uncommitted middle of the electorate to support more deliberate action on climate change by telling them that they're too stupid to be trusted with uncertainty and that if they refuse to go along with fast dramatic action (details to follow) they're science deniers and willful destroyers of the planet.

Maybe that strategy was worth a try in the 1990s. It's had a good run, and the results speak for themselves.


I'll give this guy credit he/she recognizes the problem and calls for a change in tactics, but falls back to the same old same old by calling deniers willful destroyers of the planet. See. My point exactly. You just can't help yourself. Good luck. You're going to need it.

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Last edited by Milton Banana on Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:44 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:40 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
Well, Wayne I don't know what to tell you. Your attitude is exactly why know one believes or trusts you, and why you systematically can't convince a majority of the people. Your last post demonstrates that fact. Its not your fault. Its not the fault of science. Its the stupid peoples fault. Keep it up is all the advice I can give you.


http://www.thespec.com/news-story/44474 ... ce-planet/

Quote:
Yet this staggering outlay of time and trouble has failed to move public opinion and public policy very far. Climate-change activists are exasperated beyond endurance by the gullibility of the people, the willful stupidity of climate-change "deniers," the cynicism of energy producers and other corporate interests, and the dithering incapacity of our democratic institutions.

Doubtless there's some truth in those complaints, but I'd give more weight to another theory. The main reason for the disconnect between the science and the public is the gross tactical incompetence of the climate-science community, as it's called, and its political champions.


The willful stupid. Yes, you're going to convince a majority with that attitude. Keep that up.


Well, it is easier to just lie to them as those you love to quote do, but that assumes the end always justifies the means, which is a problem with those of us with ethics. The "guns for hire" folks do not have that problem so they will say anything their corporate masters want them to say as long as the paycheck is sufficient. The irony is one of the points they trot out is how much the other scientists are making from the government. They total up the tax breaks in with the research just to make it look like a lot of money is being given. Too bad that is so wrong.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:45 am 
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http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/rab ... e-liberals

Are Conservatives More "Anti-Science" Than Are Liberals?

Just because people on both sides think the other side is out of touch does not necessary mean both sides are equally out of touch with reality. If you believe there are demons under the bed and I think you are delusional, one of us is actually right and the other is actually wrong.

So who engages in more science-denial -- liberals or conservatives?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:48 am 
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Keep it up Wayne. That's the spirit. :lol: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:01 am 
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Milton Banana wrote:
Keep it up Wayne. That's the spirit. :lol: :clap: :clap: :clap:


Sure, I can discuss the facts and situation in an intelligent manner, while you can provide links to the blogs saying what you want to hear ..... which one of us actually can say they know something about the situation?


Not you. :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:37 pm 
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Milton; "The people are smarter than you think."
No they are not. The general IQ has gone from 100 average in 1965 to close to 90 now. Because of the tendency of the lowest spectrum to breed the most and/or migrate here.
Besides dimwit denialists like Milt, we have murderers;
"Report Shows Sharp Rise in Murders of Environmentalists, Only 1% of Killers Convicted
Global Witness | April 15, 2014 10:10 am | Comments
Tweet

"Killings of people protecting the environment and rights to land increased sharply between 2002 and 2013 as competition for natural resources intensifies, a new report from Global Witness reveals. In the most comprehensive global analysis of the problem on record, the campaign group has found that at least 908 people are known to have died in this time. Disputes over industrial logging, mining and land rights the key drivers, and Latin America and Asia-Pacific particularly hard hit."
http://ecowatch.com/2014/04/15/report-s ... entalists/
Anyone TRYING to kill THIS Environmentalist, gets multiple slugs from a hand held 410 shotgun called a Taurus Judge Public Defender!

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