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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:33 am 
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This report on BBC News ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-31965454

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:08 pm 
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The timing of this article is suspect. Issue one is it only deals with the western side. Antarctic regions gain and lose ice all the time. Especially sea ice or "floating ice" is the article referred. Issue two is the southern hemisphere is at the end of their summer. So, its natural for sea ice to be at a minimum. This article strikes me as being a touch bit hysterical. Try to see past the boogie man Knight.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/09/10/i ... ed-losses/

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/satice1.htm

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 042108.php

http://www.utexas.edu/news/2009/10/19/w ... ice_sheet/

http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index ... llite-era/

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-04-20/i ... ion=justin

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/ ... print&_r=0

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1766064.stm

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:41 pm 
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Milton Banana wrote:
The timing of this article is suspect. Issue one is it only deals with the western side.


Except for the reference to the eastern side.

"Since then, volume loss has been significant. The western ice shelves have been persistently thinning for two decades, and earlier gains in the eastern ice shelves ceased in the most recent decade," he told BBC News.

Quote:
Antarctic regions gain and lose ice all the time.


Except it is losing ice moreso than anything else.

Quote:
Especially sea ice or "floating ice" is the article referred.


Which is what is tried as a distraction from the effects of the glacial losses.

Quote:
Issue two is the southern hemisphere is at the end of their summer. So, its natural for sea ice to be at a minimum.


See, the distraction begins. The article is about the glacial loss and the impact of sea level rise.

Quote:
This article strikes me as being a touch bit hysterical. Try to see past the boogie man Knight.


And to counter you will give outdated references from several years ago.

Quote:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/09/10/icesat-data-shows-mass-gains-of-the-antarctic-ice-sheet-exceed-losses/


Watts-up-with-that as a source? After such a remark on another source. From 2012

Quote:
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/satice1.htm


From 1998

Quote:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-04/haog-tad042108.php


From 2008

Quote:
http://www.utexas.edu/news/2009/10/19/west_antarctic_ice_sheet/


From 2009

Quote:
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2009/10/06/antarctic-ice-melt-at-lowest-levels-in-satellite-era/


From 2009

Quote:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-04-20/ice-cover-increasing-in-east-antarctica/1656192?section=justin


From 2009

Quote:
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/18/study-west-antarctic-melt-a-slow-affair/?pagemode=print&_r=0


From 2009

Quote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1766064.stm


From 2002

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:44 pm 
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The paper from which the article was based:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early ... ce.aaa0940

The floating ice shelves surrounding the Antarctic Ice Sheet restrain the grounded ice-sheet flow. Thinning of an ice shelf reduces this effect, leading to an increase in ice discharge to the ocean. Using eighteen years of continuous satellite radar altimeter observations we have computed decadal-scale changes in ice-shelf thickness around the Antarctic continent. Overall, average ice-shelf volume change accelerated from negligible loss at 25 ± 64 km3 per year for 1994-2003 to rapid loss of 310 ± 74 km3 per year for 2003-2012. West Antarctic losses increased by 70% in the last decade, and earlier volume gain by East Antarctic ice shelves ceased. In the Amundsen and Bellingshausen regions, some ice shelves have lost up to 18% of their thickness in less than two decades.


Now the satellite measurements are questioned when they do not support the predetermined conclusion Milton's ilk supports.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:13 am 
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Milton, we obviously have seriously opposing views. I respect your right to state them though, even if I don't agree.

Out of curiosity how would you defend your stance in relation to the Northwest Passage? Took Amundsen three years to battle his way through back in 1903-06. The MV Nunavik did it in 26 days last year.
They're talking about the Passage being ice free in summer and open to cargo vessels as a short cut ...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:29 pm 
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I appreciate your position knightofalbion. Thank you for being courteous. Please consider this as well.

https://sunshinehours.wordpress.com/

Concerning the Northwest passage. It is not uncommon for it to be open from time to time. Nothing happening today is outside of normal variation.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h ... 946497D6CF

https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress ... rticle.png

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h ... 838F649EDE

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h ... 8382679EDE

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/14 ... n_passage/

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:38 pm 
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Milton Banana wrote:
I appreciate your position knightofalbion. Thank you for being courteous. Please consider this as well.

https://sunshinehours.wordpress.com/


Another blog? Compare to the sources:

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/f ... -shrinking

Despite Antarctic Gains, Global Sea Ice Is Shrinking

http://neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov/csb/index.php?section=234

Quote:
Concerning the Northwest passage. It is not uncommon for it to be open from time to time. Nothing happening today is outside of normal variation.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h ... 946497D6CF


If you consider the passage taking 3 years and being made in a boat with less than a three foot draft "open" you are the only one.

Quote:
https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/northwest-passage-news-article.png


A possible passage that was not completed, but might have been possible to do so?

Quote:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9B02E6DE1538E23BBC4051DFBE66838F649EDE


An actual passge by special ships in one season as early as 60 years ago, you are finally getting somewhere.

Quote:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9F04E3DC1F3AEE34BC4D52DFBF668382679EDE


Finally, a commercial ship passage, which was only 40+ years ago and supported by 2 Canadian and 2 US icebreakers for the journey.

Quote:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/14/north_eastern_passage/


A questionable news source using bloggers as references to "refute" the mainstream media reports?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:13 am 
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The melting of antartica ice sheet has been decline since 70's.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:58 am 
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Taking over 400 years for the first water passage, which cannot be considered sea passage as the ship sailed along the shore at times, another 50 years for the first single season passage by special ice breaking ships, and finally the first solo transit of a special ice capable cargo ship would not appear to support the concept of the passage being open from time to time or that the latest passage was within normal variation according to the scientists who study such things.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... st-Passage

Since the end of the 15th century, Western explorers have attempted to establish a commercial sea route north and west around the American land barrier encountered by Christopher Columbus. Such an accomplishment would realize an objective that has eluded man since King Henry VII of England sent John Cabot in search of a northwest route to the Orient in 1497.

http://www.livescience.com/48105-cargo- ... ssage.html

Another Arctic milestone was reached this week when a cargo ship fortified against ice completed a solo trip through the hazardous Northwest Passage.

The MV Nunavik, owned by shipping firm Fednav and built in Japan, left Canada's Deception Bay on Sept. 19 and rounded Alaska's Point Barrow on Tuesday (Sept. 30). The Nunavik is the first cargo ship to sail through theNorthwest Passage without an escort from icebreakers, Fednav said.

http://www.livescience.com/1884-arctic- ... ssage.html

The legendary passage was first navigated with great difficulty and using a relatively small ship by explorer Roald Amundsen in 1903 to 1906. Predictions for the opening of the Northwest Passage have ranged from 2012 to 2080 at their most conservative.

Fully navigable, the Northwest Passage will make the trip 4,000 miles shorter for ships traveling between Europe and Asia, allowing them to avoid the Panama Canal. The Passage was partially open for a time in 1998, but sailing a ship through at time would have been tricky, Serreze said.

"I wouldn't have wanted to try it" in 1998, Serreze told LiveScience. "Through the years, it's become increasingly open, but still really had not remained open in any kind of viable way. 2007 is really the first year."

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:45 pm 
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Milton Banana wrote:
I appreciate your position knightofalbion. Thank you for being courteous.

Concerning the Northwest passage. It is not uncommon for it to be open from time to time. Nothing happening today is outside of normal variation.

/


That's alright, dear Milton. There is a certain 'cut and thrust' on internet forums, of course there is, 'you' are trying to win the argument, but there is no reason not to be friendly and civil with it.

I rather think the facts speak for themselves with regards to the Northwest passage. I fear the opening of the passage to commercial shipping, certainly as a summer short cut, is inevitable.
Having lived on the coast (by the English Channel) I know only too well of the potential consequences... The disposing of trash over the sides. The flushing of tanks, which is 'forbidden' but still happens. Not to mention the risk of shipwrecks and collisions.

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Last edited by knightofalbion on Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:21 pm 
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Quote:
Wayne Stollings
Another blog? Compare to the sources:

A questionable news source using bloggers as references to "refute" the mainstream media reports?[/


I'm sure Boingboing.com told you to say that.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:37 pm 
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Milton Banana wrote:
Quote:
Wayne Stollings
Another blog? Compare to the sources:

A questionable news source using bloggers as references to "refute" the mainstream media reports?[/


I'm sure Boingboing.com told you to say that.


No, only a fool would use a blog that references other blogs on conspiracy theories as evidence. The Boingboing had links to the actual references. Since you do not seem to understand basic science or logic associated with this information, we probably should give simple detailed explanations for you if we wish any chance of you getting the point.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 4:28 pm 
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More recent news on the subject;
Massive Antarctic Ice Shelf Will Disappear Completely In A Few Years, According To NASA

by Natasha Geiling Posted on May 15, 2015
"The NASA study supports previous research suggesting that Antarctica’s ice shelves are melting at a rate much faster than previously anticipated. In March, research published in Science highlighted the accelerating loss of ice from most of Antarctica’s ice shelves. The melting was most pronounced in the West Antarctic, where losses increased by nearly 70 percent in the last decade. If all the ice that sits on the West Antarctic bedrock is allowed to flow into the ocean, global sea level could rise by nine feet"
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/0 ... asa-study/
Of course, the northern glacial melt is double what it was, too. The rising waters increase migration and conflict, and the vulnerability of the USA's east coast to the La Palma slide that is due at anytime. Also, the west coast, to the effects of Cascadia, also due. Either of these events could trigger collapse.
:-k :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:39 pm 
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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