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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:44 pm 
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It's pretty impressive that we are this warm and are around the level of warmth we saw with the 2016 super Nino despite the fact that we currently have ENSO neutral conditions and low solar activity. More evidence that human caused climate change continues unabated.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:11 pm 
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Anomalies, then more, and more. :sick:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:50 pm 
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Quit using your Air Conditioner - around 40% of the energy used in the USA is to cool homes while the units heat the environment. It's the first thing you should do. You cannot be an environmentalist if you use the AC. It's not necessary and 99% of the humans that have ever lived did just fine without it.

You can't complain about someone else wasting energy if you use the AC. Period.

Don't keep a lawn, plant native and xeriscape plants around your home that need zero care. Trees are a plus.

Consume less, and less, and less, and less.

Drive the highest mileage vehicle you can to do what you need it to do. You don't need a F250 to carry groceries. Then accelerate slowly and before braking coast as much as you can. I get 100 extra miles per tankful that way, so I'm burning only 3/4 as much fuel as I would if I drove like everybody else.

Hang your clothes outside on a line, do you really need a clothes dryer? The sun and wind will do that for free.

I could go on and on.

Bob


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:19 pm 
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Bob-a-rama wrote:
Quit using your Air Conditioner - around 40% of the energy used in the USA is to cool homes while the units heat the environment.


The 40% figure is way off. The energy consumption for a compressor and the blower motor is not that high.

https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/home ... nditioning

Three-quarters of all homes in the United States have air conditioners. Air conditioners use about 6% of all the electricity produced in the United States, at an annual cost of about $29 billion to homeowners. As a result, roughly 117 million metric tons of carbon dioxide are released into the air each year. To learn more about air conditions, explore our Energy Saver 101 infographic on home cooling.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:27 pm 
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The 40% was from reputable sources.

The individual energy may be low, but there are millions of them out there and their total far exceeds the industrial energy uses in the USA.

If you turn your AC on, or if you use a clothes dryer for things that can hang outside, you can't consider yourself an environmentalist nor can you really point a finger and anyone else.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:06 pm 
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Bob-a-rama wrote:
The 40% was from reputable sources.

The individual energy may be low, but there are millions of them out there and their total far exceeds the industrial energy uses in the USA.

If you turn your AC on, or if you use a clothes dryer for things that can hang outside, you can't consider yourself an environmentalist nor can you really point a finger and anyone else.


More reputable than the Gov site I posted? Many compare cost not actual usage and electricity is the most expensive energy source in many cases.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:36 pm 
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The studies I read were in independent scientific journals. Unfortunately I didn't bookmark them. It was about a year ago and I can't find them now.

When the Climate Change Denying government posts a statistic, I don't take that as fact.

Even if you find a mid point between the two extremes, the fact remains that if you use your AC, put your clothes in a clothes dryer instead of outdoors, drive a vehicle bigger than your needs, and don't drive in a fuel saving manner, you have no right to point your finger at others.

It's hypocritical to criticize someone else for releasing carbon into the atmosphere when you are releasing carbon that is not necessary for anything but your personal comfort into the air.

Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:09 pm 
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Bob-a-rama wrote:
The 40% was from reputable sources.

The individual energy may be low, but there are millions of them out there and their total far exceeds the industrial energy uses in the USA.



There are references indicating HVAC consumes 40% of the energy in the US, but that includes heating in addition to air conditioning.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:14 pm 
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Bob-a-rama wrote:
Even if you find a mid point between the two extremes, the fact remains that if you use your AC, put your clothes in a clothes dryer instead of outdoors, drive a vehicle bigger than your needs, and don't drive in a fuel saving manner, you have no right to point your finger at others.

It's hypocritical to criticize someone else for releasing carbon into the atmosphere when you are releasing carbon that is not necessary for anything but your personal comfort into the air.

Bob


Ok, One can add using a personal vehicle at all, buying products not produced locally enough that require any transportation, and a variety of other limitations on what is a "true" environmentalist. We can get to the point that everyone is discounted as an environmentalist and the movement is DOA, which is generally the goal of the groups pointing to what they call hypocrisy.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:53 pm 
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There are things you can't get locally, but if there is a locally sourced alternative, you should go for it.

Unfortunately most of us cannot exist without transportation. Here where I live there is no local transportation at all, and my work requires a mini-van full of equipment.

Some things you have no choice about.

Others you do.

I need a vehicle to make my living. I bought the most energy efficient vehicle I could for my work. I've had it since 2010 and will not get a new one until it is unreliable. There are others who choose buy 2 ton pickup trucks to haul nothing more than groceries.

My wife's car was bought new 42 years ago. She still drives it. It's still reliable.

Over 99% of the humans that have ever lived on this planet have done so without AC. We don't need to use it, we choose to use it, and we pollute the planet by doing so.

You can choose to let your electric or gas company dry your clothes, upping your carbon footprint, or you can hang the durable clothes out to dry like my mother did.

You can keep a nice, green lawn full of herbicides, pesticides, fertilizer and mow it with an energy gobbling mower or you can plant trees and xeriscape plants. I chose trees, ferns, and xeriscape plants.

You can choose to buy blue jeans with holes cut in by the factory because it's 'in style' or buy them without holes so they last at least 10 times longer.

You can buy new clothes when they go out of style or buy classic clothes that don't go out and wear them until the become rags to clean up with.

There are some things you can't get without single use plastics, many you can choose to do without. When you do have the choice, you could use the more environmental friendly choice.

You can drive with a lead foot and jam on your brakes at the next light, or you can drive with gradually acceleration (pretend there is an egg shell between your foot and the pedal) and when the light up ahead turns red, or the speed limit ahead drops, take your foot off the gas and coast as much as you can. I practiced and refined this until I learned how to get 100 extra miles per tankful. That's a lot less carbon coming out the tailpipe.

When there is a choice, the true environmentalist will make the green choice. The faux environmentalist will make the wasteful choice.

You can't point fingers at others unless you are doing all you can without being a hypocrite.

Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:32 pm 
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Bob-a-rama wrote:
There are things you can't get locally, but if there is a locally sourced alternative, you should go for it.


No hypocritical claim for those who cannot live without bringing in "exotic" materials?

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Unfortunately most of us cannot exist without transportation.


So those who can exist without personal transportation can claim everyone else is hypocritical and not a true environmentalist?

Quote:
Here where I live there is no local transportation at all, and my work requires a mini-van full of equipment.


But a "true" environmentalist would move to an area with public transportation and get another job, right?

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Some things you have no choice about.

Others you do.


But you seem to be the one deciding what falls into which category based on your personal experiences.



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I need a vehicle to make my living. I bought the most energy efficient vehicle I could for my work. I've had it since 2010 and will not get a new one until it is unreliable. There are others who choose buy 2 ton pickup trucks to haul nothing more than groceries.

My wife's car was bought new 42 years ago. She still drives it. It's still reliable.


What is the relative fuel consumption and emission rate per mile? Would not that be a critical factor for a "true" environmentalist?

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Over 99% of the humans that have ever lived on this planet have done so without AC. We don't need to use it, we choose to use it, and we pollute the planet by doing so.


Over 99% of the humans that have ever lived on this planet have done so without a personal automobile. We don't need to use it, we choose to use it, and we pollute the planet by doing so.

Over 99% of the humans that have ever lived on this planet have done so without food transported hundreds of miles. We don't need to use it, we choose to use it, and we pollute the planet by doing so.

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You can choose to let your electric or gas company dry your clothes, upping your carbon footprint, or you can hang the durable clothes out to dry like my mother did.


You can try, but in many places you will be fined for doing so. That whole lack of choice issue.

Quote:
You can keep a nice, green lawn full of herbicides, pesticides, fertilizer and mow it with an energy gobbling mower or you can plant trees and xeriscape plants. I chose trees, ferns, and xeriscape plants.


You can have a nice green lawn without herbicides, pesticides, and use natural fertilizers while mowing it with a push mower or using sheep or goats to keep it trimmed.


Quote:
When there is a choice, the true environmentalist will make the green choice. The faux environmentalist will make the wasteful choice.


and those you have alienated by calling faux environmentalists give up because they now consider you the hypocrite for excusing your actions while condemning theirs.

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You can't point fingers at others unless you are doing all you can without being a hypocrite.


And who decided what is all one can do? Who cares to try if they will always be told they are not doing it correctly because.....

I am an environmentalist, but this turns even me off to some of the positions.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:10 am 
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Not wanting to start a flame war.

I choose to do all I can. Because I want to.

Everyone else will do what they want.

Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:06 pm 
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Bob-a-rama wrote:
Not wanting to start a flame war.

I choose to do all I can. Because I want to.


Great.

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Everyone else will do what they want.


Yes, and that does not make them any more or any less of an environmentalist if it is more or less than you or anyone else can do.

That is an important thing to remember as it takes all of us to make the difference.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:08 pm 
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No mention of the greatest thing you can do, have one, or now, no children. To me, REAL MEN build Earthships like I did last century. I have led a 3 Rs life really since 1967, when I discovered overpopulation of humans in advanced biology/ecology. I manned Earth Day booths, wrote letters and talked about it a lot, and walked the talk. It has had very little effect, and became worse than a mere species crash, to an induced methane turnover extinction event completing 15 years before the mid century it was in the 1967 graph I drew with accuracy lacking with Ehrlich.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:45 pm 
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I had 2 children when the world population was about 3.5 billion (I'm in my 7th decade). Then I got myself "fixed". At that time, I was a member of the ZPG (zero population growth) movement. It seemed like the right thing to do. However, if I had to do it again with what I know now, I would have gotten fixed before I had the first one.

The ZPG had a mission and a lot of members, but Corporate America saw that as a threat to perpetual profit growth. After all one way to sell more widgets is to have more customers who want a widget.

Almost every TV show whether it was a sitcom, drama, advertisement, variety, late night, or whatever had a woman telling her man "My biological clock is ticking" meaning she had better get pregnant while she still had the chance. Anybody watching a couple of hours of TV per day heard that phrase dozens of times per week and by mass media repetition, sure enough, people started echoing the statement and having more and more children.

It's amazing how the media can control our minds. It's even convinced millions of people that the climate crisis is a hoax. My neighbor has a 2 ton pickup truck and the heaviest thing he hauls in it is his wife, 3 little kids and groceries.

All a mom&pop business needs is enough profit to pay the owners and employers a fair wage with the only income growth needed is that to keep up with inflation. Sure it's hoped to make more profit, but the business can exist for generations without perpetual growth. A small business is a way to make a living. (I own two mom&pop businesses)

A corporation is usually almost 50% by people who do not work for the company and have zero physical or mental input in that company. All they want is for their stock to grow and grow.

Many quarters of neither growth or loss can sustain a private business for generations, but in a corporation if there is no perpetual growth, the stockholders will sell and the corporation will go bankrupt.

The Earth is a closed system, perpetual growth is impossible, it will hit a ceiling like an algae bloom in a pond and die off. I don't know if it will happen while I'm alive, but humanity headed for that ceiling. It might be too late to stop it.

It's impossible to not deal with corporate America/world. But if there is a local private business option, I'll take my business there. Instead of McDonalds or Bonefish Grill there are a couple of family owned restaurants that I patronize. Instead of Guitar Center I get things at my mom&pop music store. I buy produce at a family owned fruit/veggie stand and fish from a mom&pop fish market that sells what the local fishermen catch. The beef I buy is 100% grass fed/finished grown in Florida (my home state). Some of which comes from a ranch west of town (the owners are committed environmentalists and have done a lot to help the area).

I minimize my use of plastics, and recycle what I have to use if possible. I drink water from my well and never-ever buy bottled beverages. I don't use the AC and I hang my clothes out to dry. We don't use paper napkins (we launder cloth ones), and never use disposable cups, cutlery, or plates. We wash dishes by hand.

I have a xeriscape half acre with no lawn -- I planted over a dozen Live Oak trees, 10 Sabal Palms, 4 Gumbo Limbo trees and 2 Sea Grape trees (all natives), plus the well established and zero care 3 Royal Poincianas and one Neem. Under the trees I planted ferns. The rest of the shrubbery is comprised of either natives or xeriscape plants that have been locally hardy and non-invasive her longer than I've been on the planet like Downy Jasmine, Ixora, Firebush, Firecracker, Carolina Jasmine, Acerola Cherry, Honeysuckle, Periwinkle, and Citronella grass clumps. Most of the plants feed wildlife. The leaf litter, ferns and compost feed the plants. Once established the plants need no more water other than what mother nature provides.

I've painted the roof white to reflect the heat back out, sweep up the leaves with a broom instead of using a leaf-blower. I put the swept up leaves under the trees with the ones that fall there to return to the earth. We compost everything we can except animal waste (and there is hardly any of that). If anything needs trimming I use hand tools (saw, pruner, clipper). We don't even create a square foot of garbage per week.

My minivan is a 2010 and I use it for work, driving it like I'm a driver in the defunct Mobil Economy Run to get 100 extra miles per tankful over the EPA rating. My vehicles usually eventually accumulate 200,000 miles before they become unreliable and need to be replaced.

In the future, if there is another choice I see that I can make to help the planet, it will be done.

Why? I'm past middle age and the world should last longer than I do. Because it's the right thing to do. I've never outgrown that hippie 'save the earth' mentality (actually the earth will be here when we are gone, at least until our sun dies - it's about saving humanity.)

So when I'm doing all I can, sometimes I get frustrated seeing so many others waste. I went to the eye-doctor for a checkup and that building must have been 60 degrees F inside. The employees were mostly wearing sweaters and jackets. The patients were too. I come once a year to get my eyes checked and was on the verge of shivering. It was a beautiful 79 and sunny outside. The waste irked me - and yes, I know I shouldn't let it get to me, and it usually doesn't, but sometimes I just have one of those days. I wish AC had never been invented. When I was a child, we did fine without it.

Bob


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