EnviroLink Forum

Almost every country has been claiming its green cover is increasing.

How can this ever be true?

A fully grown tree is cut down in seconds/ minutes.

It takes 20 years for a tree to grow fully.

The rate of destruction of fully grown trees is hundreds of thousands
of times greater than the rate of replacement of fully grown trees.

And only a small percentage of trees that are planted survive to grow into healthy adult trees.

And even if you manage to replace trees how are you going to replace
the population of millions of species of animals, birds and insects
that lived in the forest and died when the forest was cut down.

Secondly where are you planting new trees? You can plant new trees on forest land only if forest land remains forest land.

But this is not the case.

We have got a very small planet whose circumference is just 40,000 km.
On this small planet two-thirds of surface area is water. Included in
the remaining land area are deserts, rocky mountains and glaciers which
do not support vegetation.

If the soil is fertile and gets rain it will grow forests, trees,
plants, vegetation by itself. This is how nature grew all the forests
in this world.

Before the arrival of man all the land that could grow forests had forests on it.

Then the genius human species arrived on the scene.

First he cut down forests for fire, then he cut down forests for
agriculture and villages. After Industrial Revolution forests were cut
down for towns and cities, for setting up industries/ factories, for
mining and extraction of raw material/minerals, for railways, for road
network.

So once the forest is cut down the land is taken up for agriculture,
for cattle grazing, for industry, for towns and cities, for rail and
road network.

So where are the new trees being planted? Where are they growing up?

How can green cover ever increase?

Lies, lies, lies .........blatant lies.

The rate of destruction of forests has risen exponentially after Industrial Revolution.

One can know the truth by looking at the satellite pictures of forests
- before and after. One can see the satellite pictures of forests taken
30 years ago and compare them with the pictures taken this year.


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

I agree that overpopulation destroys almost everything most specially our environment. There might be some laws that are active nowadays most specially in some countries but it doesn't solve the problem yet. I think people should be blame about it because some of them never care about their action and so sad because only few people have the drive to change this world into a better place to live in.

..........

Over-exploitation of ecosystems became possible only due to modern technology/ machines.

In the absence of modern technology/ machines it would be impossible for man to destroy all ecosystems.

If modern technology/ machines had not come into existence man would have probably destroyed some ecosystems on land [forests] - and that too at a much slower rate than that of the present Industrial Society.

It would have been impossible for man to destroy ecosystems in the sea/ oceans.

It would have been impossible for man to carry out largescale mining/ drilling activity and destroy ecosystems on the surface and deep inside the earth.

It would have been impossible for man to poison the earth with thousands of toxic chemicals.

It would have been impossible for man to generate billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous waste that has poisoned the air, water and land - the entire planet.

It would have been impossible for man to generate billions of tonnes of metal waste, plastic waste, eWaste, nuclear waste...... that has
turned the entire planet into a toxic dump.

The Machine has killed all ecosystems.

It is impossible to save the remaining ecosystems as long as the machine exists.

The Machine will devour everything that remains on earth.

Machine is the killer.


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

>>>>Magnum Opus
The machines started when fossil fuels came into general use. First coal in the early to mid 1800s, then oil driven machines in the early 1900s, increasing, and with the petrochemical industry. >>>People should have known that something so black and dirty or gooey was evil<<<. They overlooked its bad characteristics and saw only the "good" of cheap power. They found more useful things to do with it----plastics, fertilizers, chemicals; again overlooking the heavy metal contamination of the fertilizers, the long term toxicity of the plastics, and the pollution of chemicals. >> They looked only at the short term, forgetting to look ahead the consequences of the pollution buildup.<< They thought the Earth was so big it would absorb it all. Their greed and the demands of a population that could now have more food and other products, and thus >>>grow exponentially<<<, became a resource destroying machine. Like a locust plague of humanity.
More and more crowded, leading to more anxiety, hostility, and depression. More and more polluted until waters were unsafe to drink and the oceans' fish laden with toxic metals, the oceans themselves with huge estuary dead zones and millions of square miles of floating plastic trash. Species dying off at an extinction event rate, while the atmospheric pollution causes malevolent climate change at an accelerating rate and rains down mercury nearly everywhere. Overpopulation's cooking fires in India causing soot on Arctic ice and increased melting, more climate change, and global dimming over the Maldives, decreasing their crop yields. Power sucking out ancient aquifers of pure water until they are gone, before they can burn the last of the oil and coal. Crops fail, thirst is rampant with hunger, as the machines try to make more water and food while still polluting.
>>>>First the world economy failing as resources are used up, the ecological collapse from the over-burden, area by area.<< Desperate people running to where there still are jobs, still is pure water, still is more food--and collapsing those areas with a fight. Insane cannibal gangs roaming, stealing and killing. The seas devoid of edible life, roamed by pirates with no one to rob anymore, and relying on sails again. Floods, incredible storms, and the stench of rot, and increasing methane. >>All caused by this >>greed<<, fossil fueled, and >>ignorance<< of looking ahead.
Man, on average, a very dumb/smart creature, and one that took down most other life and a planetary biosphere, for a very long time of recovery, the Anthropocene Epoch of geology started 10,000BC. 2040s to 60s---population crash; by 2300--thermageddon, ELE of 87% of life including humans. 190,000AD the Anthropocene Epoch ends(or maybe 2 million AD), recovery and a return to the way it was, with fewer species and no humans. >>The bad greedy people who developed industrial society without forethought to the consequences, and the dumb over-breeders who also could not think ahead, >>>took down the good people who could live sustainably, for a very long time, on Earth.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

..

The attempt of Industrial Society to save environment while it continues producing consumer goods is like :

Trying to save a person by giving poison to him.

Trying to extinguish a fire by pouring petrol over it.


How can we ever save environment if we destroy it for "consumer goods" in addition to food,clothing and shelter?

Height of insanity.


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Industrial Activity has destroyed environment.....but this lunatic society keeps saying it will save environment by changing the Technology.

This is like repeatedly stabbing someone or continuously shooting someone....and then saying the person will be saved by changing the brand or make of the Knife or Gun.


Only elimination of Industrial Activity can save environment.

Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Transportation Industry....Millions of kilometers of Rail, Road, Air and Shipping routes, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Dams, Incinerators, Recycling Industry.

All this Industrial Activity must stop.........immediately.


Industrial Society keeps coming up with different solutions to solve Environmental Crisis.....Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology.....Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology.

The solution cannot change from day to day, month to month, year to year.

The cause of environmental destruction is Industrial Activity.

The solution is elimination of Industrial Activity.

The cause of environmental destruction has remained the same for 300 years....Industrial Activity.

The solution will always remain the same.... elimination of Industrial Activity.


Industrial Society has destroyed most of the ecosystems in just 300 years.

Animal species sustained for millions of years....because they did not indulge in Industrial Activity.

Hunter_Gatherer Society sustained for hundreds of thousands of years....because it did not indulge in Industrial Activity.

Agrarian Society sustained for thousands of years....because it did not indulge in Industrial Activity......and would have probably sustained for ever if Industrial Revolution had not happened.

Over-exploitation of environment was impossible without Industrial Machines.

This planet would have been in very good condition today if Industrial Society had not come into existence.

Only non-industrial societies are sustainable.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.

Haven't heard from you in a while: glad you're still at it!

Maybe I'm debating a silly point, but where does a argarian(Non-industry) society end and a Industry-laden society begin?
As a example:
Soil-fertility is vital for food production and heavens knows modern methods of adding nitrogen thru ammonia is almost certainly gotten WAAAAY out of hand but do the most primative farming methods work much better? Nomadic and small, single-family farms might get by, but to feed millions, we will need to use info and techniques gathered from the use of advanced studies.

It is possible to produce food thru sustaniable methods: but to step away from technogoly try to do so seems destined to fail to me.

Iowanic,

You are right ......Industrial Agriculture has poisoned the soil.

People say Industrialization is necessary to feed 7 billion people.

They do not tell that world population would only be a small fraction of 7 billion without Industrialization.

Besides, we do not have an Industrial Society that only feeds people and does not make Industrial Consumer Goods....Cars, computers, televisions and thousands of other consumer goods are not food.


The present society is destroying environment for Industrial Consumer Goods in addition to food, clothing and shelter....which makes it the most destructive and least sustainable.

Production of consumer goods must stop.

Our work/ activity must be limited to food, clothing and shelter. One might ask what would happen to all the work-force that is currently engaged in production of consumer goods. This has to be answered by the people and institutions that took the entire world on the wrong path for 300 years after industrialization.

The next step would be to find out ways to minimize destruction caused by production of food, clothing and shelter. We will have to find ways to stop/ minimize the destruction of animals, trees, air, water and soil by Industrial Agriculture, housing activity and textile manufacturing.


sushil_yadav

Sushi, dude (or dudess as the case may be), it isn't going to happen. It is human destiny to reproduce to the point of destroying itself and damaging anything else in close proximity. Humans are a far too selfish and greedy lot. I'm not saying that to be derogatory. I'm just saying it is what it is. Some folks, both smart and whacked out alike, are able to see what's happening. Most of those, however, still dupe themselves into thinking we can turn the tide. We can't live responsibly unless we're forced to do so which, unfortunately....or fortunately...depending on how you look at it...won't come until after a massive die off.

Face your monsters. Accept them. Embrace them. Move on.

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TANG SOO!

Gosh, Fos. That's depressing!

I still think we can turn it around: but we have to start now.

I should clarify. I've stated it before--we can about face, it's just that we likely will not.

Whether that is depressing or not depends on how you look at it. Species have always come and gone for reasons beyond their control or influence. Be honest now, what evidence is there that we are any different? We are who we are. What that is, IMO, is rather apparent.

_________________
TANG SOO!

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

I wonder where Sushi has been???
Fosgate is right--population crash it is. I will say that between 2045 and 2065, at least 8 billion people and most babies born will die. The world will quickly warm from +9*F to +25*F or more and oceans will rise 80 to 120 feet, all by 2100 or so. Ecosystems will fail and extinction rate will increase to include the majority of species. The few people left will be cannibals. Industrial society will have self destructed. Overpopulating humans will have self destructed. No more ice ages, and probably a runaway greenhouse planet eventually with no life left.
"Screaming through the shadow of a million years, darkness is the only sound that reaches ears, crying for a future that will never be.....left without a hope of coming home......"
From "Gypsy" by Justin Hayward of the Moody Blues, album "To Our Children's Children's Children" 1969. Johnny is going to go play it on electric solar guitar, now!

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein