EnviroLink Forum

Sushi undermines himself by not acknowledging the obvious advantages of industrialization. This is not a legal brief; you are supposed to start with reality and then from that develop a hopefully coherent analysis. So to provide balance here are some of the advantages:

1. It supports more people with a longer life expectancy.

2. I provides lots of labor savings devices and energy to run them.

3. It concentrates surplus value, purchasing knowledge breakthroughs, for instance in medicine. Think of smallpox being eradicated.

4. People can travel further faster.

5. An individual has at his finger tips encyclopedic amounts of information.

And so on. I think one can develop an analysis that the advantages of industrialization fail to out weigh the disadvantages in the long term but to pretend there aren't advantages is just putting your head in the sand.

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With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

Nature already has the solution with mass die off. It is unfortunate that this time recovery is problematic, and extinction is most likely, but not just for the human causers, but most life or even all life on Earth. Much of it will be experienced in horror by people alive today.

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

And apparently now they are saying, or rather, at least one NASA scientist is saying, that CA only has 1 year of water left.

GREAT! Then more of the liberal asses will come to Colorado! They let their own state go with unlimited foreigners and their nits, and the red ink of their stupid programs that help them. The a-wipes changed Colorado from red to blue and now my vote doesn't really even count because of the electoral shenanigans.

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Well, we already went over how it would take over 30 years to make a dent with Gen IV nuclear.
I had argued with Sushi that industrialization started a thousand years ago in China with water wheels to fulfill the demand of early overpopulation, in India, too, all wiped out by diseases and wars, but not enough, obviously.
He had it that industrialization destroys the mind and environment. I agreed with the environment to the point of methane turnover and death of the biosphere. As far as destroying the mind, I think overpopulation caused hostility, depression, and anxiety are really what is going on.
All these organizations trying to make a buck and deluded into thinking they can stop thermageddon, as if we had a lot more time than the less than a decade to even have a less than 50% chance of stopping it before the tundra self release point is reached.
The major overpopulation on a global scale was reached after the big time use of coal then oil and trapped methane in gas.
It would be nice if we could all just return to a simpler life with little travel and growing all your own food for total nutrition in the local area. That is the thing, total nutrition. The tendency is for IQ lowering mono-diets.
With the stupidity, greed, and over-breeding of humans, I guess they were bound to ruin the entire planetary biosphere when they discovered what should have struck them as evil---coal and oil.

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Sushi, let us know if you are still an environmental activist, or have been muzzled by the Indian government.
http://insideclimatenews.org/news/14052 ... -327530301

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

OVER 256,700 HITS!!!!
Sushi is still here;
"Endless debate is happening today because of the invention of printing press, radio, television and internet.........There was very little debate in pre-industrial society........There was only face-to-face discussion and that too was very limited because pre-industrial society spent most of its time and energy doing hard physical work whole day.

industrial society will debate itself to destruction.......It will keep debating even in the last moments of its existence.


As far as right to free speech or hundreds of other rights are concerned, it is yet another lunacy of industrial society........It is ridiculous when industrial society talks about rights after taking away all the rights of millions of other species.

Industrial society has snatched away everything that belonged to millions of other species........their habitats, their source of food and water. ........Millions of species have been tortured, slaughtered and decimated.

Industrial man wants hundreds of rights for himself when millions of other species don't even have the right to live and exist.


This planet is home to millions of species not just man alone.
Millions of other species destroyed environment only for food.
Industrial man has destroyed environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

It is crystal clear that industrial man has destroyed exponential extra environment for thousands of consumer goods and services."
You will never get Milton to admit it before the 52GT tundra methane releases coming as the initial pulse 2025-8. Then he will just run away and die.
Good riddance.

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

A lot of what Sushi says rings true, on the other hand industrial society concentrated wealth that furthered the possibility of education and research so we have a more sophisticated understanding of our surroundings and do things like wipe out devastating diseases like smallpox and polio and diminish others like measles. I remember as a young man seeing older men with large goiters from lack of iodine. Mandated iodine in the salt ended that - an industrial solution don't you know.

There are trade offs. Nevertheless I think the modern industrial state has too many negatives built in to be sustainable. In some fashion or another we need to restore sustainable communities, which does not preclude small industries.

What could have been is nice. Ecovillages, one child, local food with complete anti-oxidant/anti-cancer diet, very low emissions, soil replenishment through community composting, low water use/water recycling, solar/wind/or other non-emissions power like Gen 4. Sustainability was achievable.
Industrialization was the result of using fossil fuels, and pushed the stimulus for exponential population rise. Technology with weapons and medicine took away natural predators and some religious ways of thinking lowered mortality. The economic systems became growth only by stealing savings and spending them. The intelligence and quality of people began going down with low IQ and criminal overbreeding, along with negatively selective self predation of wars. Overpopulation demands increased industrialization and its pollution to the point of eco-collapse on a global scale, including fatal thermal effects ending in extinction.
All this happening because not enough was done in time by a dumbed down, lazy, lustful majority of humans . People 'sat on the fence' for far too long.

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

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Industry is killing environment........Instead of stopping industry, people have engaged in endless debate for many decades on how to save environment .......Height of insanity........When your house is on fire what do you do........Do you rush to extinguish the fire or do you engage in endless debate on how the house can be saved???

Keep a balance between industry and environment.......height of insanity.

When your house is on fire do you keep a balance between fire and house???

You cannot keep a balance between two things when one of them destroys the other.
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