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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:18 am 
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sushilydv wrote:
Science is not the solution - Science is the problem.


I disagree. I'd say that it is more our general lack of discipline. Technology came along too quickly. Mixed with the right population (or wrong one depending on your persepective) and we get what we have today--one that has spiraled to levels it never should have.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:21 am 
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Sushilydv; this picking on each other isn't really accomplishing much.

Do you have any ideas how to 'turn back the clock', technogy-wise? How can we possible step away from science without major upheaval?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:13 pm 
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Sushilydv has no solutions, no ideas, just hate and probably a little self loathing.
It must pain him that he must rant about consumerism through a computer and the internet.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:38 am 
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sammyd wrote:
Sushilydv has no solutions, no ideas, just hate and probably a little self loathing.
It must pain him that he must rant about consumerism through a computer and the internet.


I have replied to the above point many times on this thread but some people just don't seem to understand. It is really difficult talking to some Americans and make them see reason.

The reasoning of America and the coalition of willing [coalition of stupid] goes like this :


Iraq has got weapons of mass destruction.

Why?

Because America says so.
America cannot be wrong.
If America says Iraq has got weapons of mass destruction then it has got to have weapons of mass destruction.


America invaded Iraq - toppled Saddam Hussein - and then the contingent of Embedded Journalists [Jokers] which accompanied the invaders showed video pictures of some people celebrating on the streets.

Headlines in American newspapers screamed :

We told you Iraqi people hated Saddam - look they are celebrating.

We have liberated Iraq.

Jokers.

This kind of celebration happens in every country.

There are two major parties in America. Both parties get almost half of the votes in election. The winning party gets slightly more votes than the losing party.

When one leader/ party loses election half of the country celebrates.



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:46 am 
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sushilydv wrote:
sammyd wrote:
Sushilydv has no solutions, no ideas, just hate and probably a little self loathing.
It must pain him that he must rant about consumerism through a computer and the internet.


What is your solution? It is really difficult talking to some Americans and make them see reason.



He doesn't need a solution ...he is not the one ranting and hating and telling everyone how horrible they are. Seems you have avoided answering the question of providing a solution several times now. So basically your only point is to bash America as you have provided nothing else.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:53 am 
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animallover wrote:
sushilydv wrote:
sammyd wrote:
Sushilydv has no solutions, no ideas, just hate and probably a little self loathing.
It must pain him that he must rant about consumerism through a computer and the internet.


What is your solution? It is really difficult talking to some Americans and make them see reason.



He doesn't need a solution ...he is not the one ranting and hating and telling everyone how horrible they are. Seems you have avoided answering the question of providing a solution several times now. So basically your only point is to bash America as you have provided nothing else.



Here is one reply which I posted earlier.

sammyd wrote:
But still no real solutions.
You have listed what you think are problems.
Over population and consumer goods.
No solutions, just blathering.


What kind of a person are you?

6.5 billion people collectively create a problem - and you expect sushil_yadav to solve the problem?

Western civilization promoted industrial society over a period of 250 years, which has led to the present mess of consumerism - and you expect sushil_yadav to solve the problem?



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:56 am 
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sushilydv wrote:
animallover wrote:
sushilydv wrote:

What is your solution? It is really difficult talking to some Americans and make them see reason.



He doesn't need a solution ...he is not the one ranting and hating and telling everyone how horrible they are. Seems you have avoided answering the question of providing a solution several times now. So basically your only point is to bash America as you have provided nothing else.



Here is one reply which I posted earlier.

sammyd wrote:
But still no real solutions.
You have listed what you think are problems.
Over population and consumer goods.
No solutions, just blathering.


What kind of a person are you?

6.5 billion people collectively create a problem - and you expect sushil_yadav to solve the problem?

Western civilization promoted industrial society over a period of 250 years, which has led to the present mess of consumerism - and you expect sushil_yadav to solve the problem?



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Yea...you said you have no solutions and continued bashing. I think that sums up what I just said.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:17 am 
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animallover wrote:
He doesn't need a solution ...he is not the one ranting and hating and telling everyone how horrible they are. Seems you have avoided answering the question of providing a solution several times now. So basically your only point is to bash America as you have provided nothing else.



Here is one reply which I posted earlier.

sammyd wrote:
But still no real solutions.
You have listed what you think are problems.
Over population and consumer goods.
No solutions, just blathering.


What kind of a person are you?

6.5 billion people collectively create a problem - and you expect sushil_yadav to solve the problem?

Western civilization promoted industrial society over a period of 250 years, which has led to the present mess of consumerism - and you expect sushil_yadav to solve the problem?



sushil_yadav
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animallover wrote:
Yea...you said you have no solutions and continued bashing. I think that sums up what I just said.



animallover,

Your profile says you joined in july 2007 - and you have made over 14,000 posts in this forum.

Are you using this board as a means to spend all your free time?

You post news which has already appeared in newspapers, television and magazines. Is that your solution?

You make thousands of posts - which are mostly news items - and then 6 months later or 9 months later the posts get pruned.

Environment saved?

All problems solved?

Please don't make a mockery of environmentalism.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:25 am 
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sushilydv wrote:
animallover wrote:
He doesn't need a solution ...he is not the one ranting and hating and telling everyone how horrible they are. Seems you have avoided answering the question of providing a solution several times now. So basically your only point is to bash America as you have provided nothing else.



Here is one reply which I posted earlier.

sammyd wrote:
But still no real solutions.
You have listed what you think are problems.
Over population and consumer goods.
No solutions, just blathering.


What kind of a person are you?

6.5 billion people collectively create a problem - and you expect sushil_yadav to solve the problem?

Western civilization promoted industrial society over a period of 250 years, which has led to the present mess of consumerism - and you expect sushil_yadav to solve the problem?



sushil_yadav
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Yea...you said you have no solutions and continued bashing. I think that sums up what I just said.



animallover,

Your profile says you joined in july 2007 - and you have made over 14,000 posts in this forum.

Are you using this board as a means to spend all your free time?

You post news which has already appeared in newspapers, television and magazines. Is that your solution?

You make thousands of posts - which are mostly news items - and then 6 months later or 9 months later the posts get pruned.

Environment saved?

All problems solved?

Please don't make a mockery of environmentalism.


sushil_yadav
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment[/quote]

[-X Not my responsibility to solve your hatred of America and ways of life. And I promise you I do more for the enviroment than what you have displayed.....I actually make hands-on positive contributions and work with a group that takes steps to make impovements to the enviroment. But thanks for asking.

And no one is making a mockery of the enviroment.....but then again your posts are not really about that either.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:01 am 
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Now that we have sushi's take on what others (allegedly) do in their spare time and his concerns with American foreign policy...

...the question remains as to what sushi does with his beyond posting here to combat the problems he addresses.

So how 'bout it guy? Do you walk your talk?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:03 pm 
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Sushilydv---

I heard someone say once "Don't come to me with a problem....unless you also have the solution.'

Ok; you feel consumerism is out of control and bad....

How do we change that? Just telling someone their house is ugly without suggesting where they might get some new paint for it doesn't serve much point.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:58 am 
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Iowanic wrote:
Sushilydv---

I heard someone say once "Don't come to me with a problem....unless you also have the solution.'

Ok; you feel consumerism is out of control and bad....

How do we change that? Just telling someone their house is ugly without suggesting where they might get some new paint for it doesn't serve much point.


It seems you like going round and round in circles with endless discussions, debates and arguments. Society will have to bring down the production of consumer goods to the minimum level to save ecosystems.

The situation is crystal clear. The logic is simple and very obvious.

Our planet is just 40,000 km in circumference.

If we destroy ecosystems for food, clothing and shelter the ecosystems will last longer.

If we destroy ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter plus thousands of consumer goods the ecosystems will get destroyed much sooner [ Most of the ecosystems have already been destroyed to a great extent - we are heading towards complete destruction within the next two decades]

The insane solution of western civilization is - bring this technology, bring that technology - bring this technology, bring that technology.

Trust the western world to come up with gems of solutions.

After the financial collapse the response of west is - make all efforts to increase consumption/ consumerism - make all efforts to increase growth rate - economy rate - GDP.

The west has not learned the lesson from financial collapse - The west will only learn the lesson from ecosystem collapse.

But wait - maybe there is no reason to worry - the western God is going to create another world [ with all the ecosystems ] in six days.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:21 am 
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sushilydv wrote:
Iowanic wrote:
Sushilydv---

I heard someone say once "Don't come to me with a problem....unless you also have the solution.'

Ok; you feel consumerism is out of control and bad....

How do we change that? Just telling someone their house is ugly without suggesting where they might get some new paint for it doesn't serve much point.


Quote:
It seems you like going round and round in circles with endless discussions, debates and arguments. Society will have to bring down the production of consumer goods to the minimum level to save ecosystems.


I agree Sushi. But it's incredibly complicated. Our entire way of being, our economic system, our livelihoods are based on this system of consumption. We could consume less, buy less, have less but that would endanger the economic system we've been building up at least since the Industrial Revolution. The idea of GNP/GDP growth is absolutely unsustainable and will come crashing down - it must. Technology in itself is not to blame. It's far more complicated than that. Possibly the earth could sustain our present pop and more if we weren't consuming so much of the environment.


Quote:
The situation is crystal clear. The logic is simple and very obvious.
Our planet is just 40,000 km in circumference.
If we destroy ecosystems for food, clothing and shelter the ecosystems will last longer.
If we destroy ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter plus thousands of consumer goods the ecosystems will get destroyed much sooner [ Most of the ecosystems have already been destroyed to a great extent - we are heading towards complete destruction within the next two decades]

I agree but I don't think it is helpful to play the blame game.

Quote:
The insane solution of western civilization is - bring this technology, bring that technology - bring this technology, bring that technology.


There are sustainable technologies.

Quote:
Trust the western world to come up with gems of solutions.

After the financial collapse the response of west is - make all efforts to increase consumption/ consumerism - make all efforts to increase growth rate - economy rate - GDP.


Yes, it is the very samew highway to hell. (Thanks AC/DC)

Quote:
The west has not learned the lesson from financial collapse - The west will only learn the lesson from ecosystem collapse.
But wait - maybe there is no reason to worry - the western God is going to create another world [ with all the ecosystems ] in six days.

We will all learn the lesson from ecosystem collapse but only if we survive it. We're all in this together. So if you want dialogue - my suggestion to you is not to blame. Could you try another tact?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:25 am 
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Teh quotes came out weird on that last post. :-k


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:12 am 
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I was able to pick your points out, AF. Good post, BTW.


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