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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:28 pm 
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sushilydv wrote:
Work has destroyed ecosystems.

Work has become a source of destruction in Industrial Society.

On a small planet whose circumference is just 40,000 km work has turned into overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.

Most of the 3 billion people living in cities - 50% of world population - are engaged in overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.

It is very important to understand the reasons for doing work.

Why do we work?

It is generally thought that people work because - they are smart, intelligent and hardworking. People work in order to feed themselves and their families.

Above reasons are totally wrong.

In the East sages had discovered thousands of years ago that people cannot stop working. People work because they cannot stop working.

Anyone who wants proof of this can try the following. Take leave from work for 10 days. Try to sleep continuously. Try to indulge in pleasure/ entertainment continuously. Try to relax continuously.

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly.

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience]

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another.

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work.

When we stop physical work and mental work, the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes - they can stop work/activity only under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People do not work for their family.
People do not work for their nation.
People do not work for any reason.

People work because they cannot stop working.

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.

In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort. A large number of people in the east have tried to do this but very few have succeeded - maybe a few hundred or a few thousand in the entire history. Stopping work is not an option for most people living in this world.

Today 50% of world population - 3 bilion people are living in cities. These people cannot do farming in cities. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work - making things, buying things and selling things - leading to an endless cycle of unnecessary and destructive work.

Our small planet which is only 40,000 km in circumference cannot sustain a city-based industrial society.

A city-based industrial society destroys necessary things for making unnecessary things.

A city-based industrial society destroys animals, trees, air, water and land for making consumer goods.

In a city-based industrial society work turns into overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.

Such a society ends up destroying the ecosystems - the very things that have created and sustained life on earth.



sushil_yadav
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You know, for all of your sanctimonious grandstanding about emotional well-being, your posts sure contain an awful amount of anger, hate, and vitriol. Anger, hate, and vitriol that seem well on their way to consuming you. As the old saying goes, "physician, heal thyself!"!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:50 pm 
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sushilydv wrote:
Eat, Drink and make Merry [while the planet burns].

You are the problem, joker.

Your lifestyle - your country is the biggest problem.

Your country is the biggest cause of war and violence across the world - it is the biggest producer and supplier of weapons across the world. The Taliban that you call a terrorist group is a creation of America - it was created to control Russian advance in Afghanistan. America is considered the number one terrorist in the rest of the world.

The country with the biggest stockpile of "weapons of mass destruction" attacked and flattened Iraq on the pretext that it was building a few "weapons of mass destruction" [ later it turned out that Iraq did'nt have any WMD]

Height of hypocrisy.
Height insanity and criminality.

Your country played the leading role in spreading consumerism all over the world.

5% of world population consuming 40% of world resources - and then asking for a solution.


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My god, your vacuous, vitriolic, self-serving diatribes are tedious. For all of your obvious hatred towards the U.S. here are some facts to remember:

- the U.S. leads the world in charitable giving

- the U.S. leads the world in aid to other countries. The next time some disaster happens in your
country, you can bet relief will come in the form of American supplies and food, brought by
American ships and planes, and paid for by American taxpayers.

- from Naziism to Japanese Imperialism to Soviet expansionism to Islamic extremism, it has been
the U.S. who has fought some of the greatest evils in all of human history. Our men and
women have shed their blood time and time again so that others may be free. Even ingrates
and malcontents like you.

- the U.S. has some of the most stringent laws regarding pollution, clean water, emissions, etc. in
world. Nations like India are filthy by comparison.

Your rants are empty and self-serving sushil_yadav. They offer no real insight of any kind and amount to little more than anger and hate. What you are engaging in is hate-mongering and anti-Western bigotry masquerading as a lofty ethical principle. And it just doesn't wash.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:23 am 
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Just as I said.
No real ideas, just blathering. With a little hate thrown in now I see.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:51 am 
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Grizzly Bear wrote:
sushilydv wrote:
Humans have spent more than 99% of their time on earth in non-industrial societies.

It is highly amazing that people have taken for granted a lifestyle that has barely existed for 50 - 100 years.

People started thinking "this is the way to live".

This is not the way to live - This is the way to die.

Industrial Society has destroyed necessary things[animals, trees, air, water and land] for making unnecessary things[consumer goods].

People who are going for infinite growth and development on a small planet [whose circumference is just 40,000 km] are insane, abnormal and criminal.


In the context of Industrial Society someone has said :

"It is like adding extra floors to your building by removing bricks from the lower floor/ foundation."



sushil_yadav
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


"Humans have spent more than 99% of their time on earth in non-industrial societies.

It is highly amazing that people have taken for granted a lifestyle that has barely existed for 50 - 100 years.

People started thinking "this is the way to live".

This is not the way to live - This is the way to die."



If technological/industrialized society is not the way to live, but the way to die, then why is human life expectancy the greatest it's ever been in history?



Here comes another wise one.

Better stick to your railways job. Environmental issues are beyond your grasp.

Increased lifespan has barely existed for about 50 - 100 years. Will you kindly make some calculations and let everyone know this is how much percentage of the total duration for which human society has existed on earth.

This is a fake lifespan. The pre-industrial lifespan was the real one because it sustained/ existed for thousands of years.

The human lifespan is going to become zero very soon - because humans are about to be wiped off from earth.

What about the lifespan of animals, trees, air, water and land?

Industrial Society has killed all ecosystems - it has killed animals, trees, air, water and land.

Humans are alive because of animals, trees, air, water and land - humans owe their very existence to animals, trees, air, water and land.

Human life is going to be extinguished very soon because humans have killed the very things that had kept them alive for thousands of years.


The Military-Industrial Complex is all set to destroy whatever life and environment that remains on earth. There is a reason why the two World Wars happened in the recent past and not 1000 years ago.

It was not possible to have world wars 1000 years ago. World Wars became possible only when Science and Technology developed aeroplanes, ships and other carriers which could transport millions of troops and millions of tonnes of weapons[once again a creation of science and technology] from one corner of the globe to another.

And today one does'nt even need all these to fight a war. One just needs to move finger-tips to launch missiles that can destroy the planet several times over.

Right at this moment there are several countries fighting wars with one another. There is internal war going on in almost half of the the countries of the world. All these wars are being fuelled and sustained by billions of tonnes of weapons produced by the Military-Industrial Complex every year.

And it is going to get worse and worse every day.

If you kill one person they call it murder.
If you kill a few hundred they call it terrorism.
If you kill a few million they call it war.

Science and Technology has made this world [millions of times] more violent and unsafe than before.

Science and Technology has produced billions of tonnes of weapons and explosives - chemical, biological and nuclear weapons - millions of tonnes of Radioactive material [ which will soon be used to make dirty radioactive bombs - which are going to contaminate the environment for hundreds and thousands of years]. Science and Technology is the real terrorist.

The human race has been destroying/ killing animals, trees, air, water, land and people from the very beginning of civilization. Science and Technology has increased this destructive capacity millions of times.

Every citizen of Industrial Society is using hundreds/ thousands of consumer goods.

Every consumer good is made by killing animals, trees, air, water and land - directly or indirectly. [ more killing of nature takes place when consumer goods are used and discarded]

The per capita killing of animals, trees, air, water and land in Industrial Society is hundreds of times/ thousands of times greater than that of pre-industrial society.

Every citizen of Industrial Society is a serial killer - serial killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.

Those who produce consumer goods are killers.
Those who sell consumer goods are killers.
Those who buy consumer goods are killers.



Before Industrialization humans killed Environment primarily for Food, Clothing & Shelter. After industrialization humans are killing environment for Food, Clothing & Shelter plus [thousands of unnecessary]Consumer Goods.

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things[Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land] for making unnecessary things[Consumer Goods].

The Military Industrial Complex has killed millions of people in War/ Violence. It has decimated all plant and animal species. It has destroyed all ecosystems. It has polluted and poisioned the Sky, Land and Oceans. It has raped and plundered "Mother Earth" in the name of Progress and Development.

People who are going for Infinite growth and development on a tiny planet which is just 40,000 km in circumference are insane, abnormal and criminal.

"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"

These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:26 am 
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YAWN


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:31 am 
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sushilydv wrote:
Grizzly Bear wrote:
sushilydv wrote:
Humans have spent more than 99% of their time on earth in non-industrial societies.

It is highly amazing that people have taken for granted a lifestyle that has barely existed for 50 - 100 years.

People started thinking "this is the way to live".

This is not the way to live - This is the way to die.

Industrial Society has destroyed necessary things[animals, trees, air, water and land] for making unnecessary things[consumer goods].

People who are going for infinite growth and development on a small planet [whose circumference is just 40,000 km] are insane, abnormal and criminal.


In the context of Industrial Society someone has said :

"It is like adding extra floors to your building by removing bricks from the lower floor/ foundation."



sushil_yadav
Corrupt
ePhilosopher
ForeignPolicy
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


"Humans have spent more than 99% of their time on earth in non-industrial societies.

It is highly amazing that people have taken for granted a lifestyle that has barely existed for 50 - 100 years.

People started thinking "this is the way to live".

This is not the way to live - This is the way to die."



If technological/industrialized society is not the way to live, but the way to die, then why is human life expectancy the greatest it's ever been in history?



Here comes another wise one.

Better stick to your railways job. Environmental issues are beyond your grasp.

Increased lifespan has barely existed for about 50 - 100 years. Will you kindly make some calculations and let everyone know this is how much percentage of the total duration for which human society has existed on earth.

This is a fake lifespan. The pre-industrial lifespan was the real one because it sustained/ existed for thousands of years.

The human lifespan is going to become zero very soon - because humans are about to be wiped off from earth.

What about the lifespan of animals, trees, air, water and land?

Industrial Society has killed all ecosystems - it has killed animals, trees, air, water and land.

Humans are alive because of animals, trees, air, water and land - humans owe their very existence to animals, trees, air, water and land.

Human life is going to be extinguished very soon because humans have killed the very things that had kept them alive for thousands of years.


The Military-Industrial Complex is all set to destroy whatever life and environment that remains on earth. There is a reason why the two World Wars happened in the recent past and not 1000 years ago.

It was not possible to have world wars 1000 years ago. World Wars became possible only when Science and Technology developed aeroplanes, ships and other carriers which could transport millions of troops and millions of tonnes of weapons[once again a creation of science and technology] from one corner of the globe to another.

And today one does'nt even need all these to fight a war. One just needs to move finger-tips to launch missiles that can destroy the planet several times over.

Right at this moment there are several countries fighting wars with one another. There is internal war going on in almost half of the the countries of the world. All these wars are being fuelled and sustained by billions of tonnes of weapons produced by the Military-Industrial Complex every year.

And it is going to get worse and worse every day.

If you kill one person they call it murder.
If you kill a few hundred they call it terrorism.
If you kill a few million they call it war.

Science and Technology has made this world [millions of times] more violent and unsafe than before.

Science and Technology has produced billions of tonnes of weapons and explosives - chemical, biological and nuclear weapons - millions of tonnes of Radioactive material [ which will soon be used to make dirty radioactive bombs - which are going to contaminate the environment for hundreds and thousands of years]. Science and Technology is the real terrorist.

The human race has been destroying/ killing animals, trees, air, water, land and people from the very beginning of civilization. Science and Technology has increased this destructive capacity millions of times.

Every citizen of Industrial Society is using hundreds/ thousands of consumer goods.

Every consumer good is made by killing animals, trees, air, water and land - directly or indirectly. [ more killing of nature takes place when consumer goods are used and discarded]

The per capita killing of animals, trees, air, water and land in Industrial Society is hundreds of times/ thousands of times greater than that of pre-industrial society.

Every citizen of Industrial Society is a serial killer - serial killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.

Those who produce consumer goods are killers.
Those who sell consumer goods are killers.
Those who buy consumer goods are killers.



Before Industrialization humans killed Environment primarily for Food, Clothing & Shelter. After industrialization humans are killing environment for Food, Clothing & Shelter plus [thousands of unnecessary]Consumer Goods.

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things[Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land] for making unnecessary things[Consumer Goods].

The Military Industrial Complex has killed millions of people in War/ Violence. It has decimated all plant and animal species. It has destroyed all ecosystems. It has polluted and poisioned the Sky, Land and Oceans. It has raped and plundered "Mother Earth" in the name of Progress and Development.

People who are going for Infinite growth and development on a tiny planet which is just 40,000 km in circumference are insane, abnormal and criminal.

"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"

These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".




sushil_yadav
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment




"Better stick to your railways job. Environmental issues are beyond your grasp."

I'm happy to stick to my job. It pays well :D . And your condescending, arrogant attitude doesn't bolster your feeble tirades any. FYI, I'm educated in natural resource sciences, specifically wildlife biology and forestry. And your qualifications to opine on environmental issues are? If you'd like to discuss ecosystems, I'd be happy to do so. Which specific ecosystem would you like to talk about? If you're going to discuss ecosystems, then you need to talk about specific systems, what conservation issues they are facing, and possible PRAGMATIC, VIABLE solutions to those issues ( suggesting that humankind return to a caveman lifestyle is irrational and doesn't count ). My guess is, however, that you don't want to engage in rational, reasoned discussion about any ecosystems. You just want to engage in the intellectual masturbation of listening to yourself rant.


"Increased lifespan has barely existed for about 50 - 100 years. Will you kindly make some calculations and let everyone know this is how much percentage of the total duration for which human society has existed on earth."

Why? That is irrelevant. Increased lifespan is directly correlated to increased science and technology. Things like vaccines, medical testing and scanning to detect disease, etc. are all responsible for the increase in human lifespan. These are products of science and technology. Why do you deny the obvious facts?

"This is a fake lifespan."

WTF? There is no such thing as a "fake lifespan". Average human lifespan is verifiable, quantifiable, empirical, factual data. And the fact is, it has been steadily on the increase since the dawn of the technological age.


"The human lifespan is going to become zero very soon - because humans are about to be wiped off from earth."

Proof please?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:37 am 
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TechnoWorshipper,

The craze and fetish for science and scientific proof has mainly existed for the last 50 - 100 years. People have lived on this planet for thousands of years without needing scientific proof to understand something. It is Science and Technology that created the consumerist Industrial Society which has led to the destruction of Mind and Nature/ Environment. Who needs more science or more scientific proof. Science is not the solution - Science is the problem.

Some people demand proof of everything. They won't accept anything without proof. How do people accept their father as their father? Where is the proof?
Scientific proof comes from DNA testing. How many people have got the DNA test conducted?

Two things that have destroyed Environment are - Overpopulation and Overconsumerism. Science and Technology is responsible for both these problems. World population was less than 1 billion in the year 1800. Nature had its way of controlling population through disease and death caused by bacteria and virus. When man made medicines/ antibiotics he created disaster - population increased very rapidly. In the absence of "Industrial Agriculture" the feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control. If Industrial Revolution had not happened, environmental destruction due to production of consumer goods would not exist. In the absence of Science, Technology and "Industrial Revolution" we would not be facing the two problems that have caused destruction of ecosystems - overpopulation and overconsumerism.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:49 am 
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So, where along the evolutionary chain should we return to ?

Certainly, according to your beliefs before the Iron Age.

Perhaps back to the time when our ancestors were eating berries and leaves and had not invented weapons for hunting animals for food and clothing ?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:56 am 
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sushilydv wrote:
TechnoWorshipper,


See you still have and use that computer. :roll: :- :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:00 am 
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jhawk wrote:
So, where along the evolutionary chain should we return to ?

Certainly, according to your beliefs before the Iron Age.

Perhaps back to the time when our ancestors were eating berries and leaves and had not invented weapons for hunting animals for food and clothing ?


oh no dear, we should continue with the American philosophy :

consume, consume, consume ..... and destroy the ecosystems.

Continue with the Great American Dream which has turned into a Nightmare for the planet - 5% of world population consuming 40% of resources.

Wait! - there are some more American solutions.

Attack Iran.

Attack this country - Attack that country.

Attack a new country every day.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:05 am 
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Ah.....how's things with Pakistan?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:08 am 
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Iowanic wrote:
Ah.....how's things with Pakistan?


And what happened to the threat of attacking Iran after the financial collapse?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:15 am 
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If America makes 30,000 nuclear bombs - it is progress, growth and development.

If an asian/ islamic country tries to make even one nuclear bomb - it is terrorism.

Height of hypocricy, insanity and criminality.



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:16 am 
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When India and Pakistan decide to stop threatening eack other with nukes, I think the whole world will be nearly as happy as when we finally get out of Iraq.

Guess we'll have to see which happens first, eh? :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:17 am 
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sushilydv wrote:
If America makes 30,000 nuclear bombs - it is progress, growth and development.

If an asian/ islamic country tries to make even one nuclear bomb - it is terrorism.

Height of hypocricy, insanity and criminality.



sushil_yadav
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Yea, yea...we get it.....you are anti-American.....blah, blah.


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