EnviroLink Forum

You are the one who keeps bringing in humans and what they would think or feel. When I then point out that humans too, may be tube fed, it instantly becomes different - don't shift the goal posts. Is it cruel to tube feed a bird? This is completely outside whether one should produce foie gras, or cage birds, or eat animals. I am still waiting for an answer.

If you think the issue is moral, there is no discussion. I have no moral problem with using animals for food, as long as the animals' welfare is not compromised. This does not mean that no animal will ever suffer any stress or even some pain - these are, after all, part of life, for animals (wild and domestic, for wild animals probably more so)and humans (even for our children). A life without any stress whatsoever is bad for animals since they lose their natural need for vigilance and awareness, BTW. So I will not buy "cage" eggs, since they do affect welfare of the animals significantly. But I do not mind "barn" eggs even though the animals may be stressed because of having to actually cope with social environments; a "natural" stress if within limits. I don't mind meat since in Australia beef is grassfed and at best finished in feedlots for a limited time only, and killed quickly. I don't mind milk, since bull calves are raised for meat; and bees produce plenty of honey to let me have some, to mention just a few food items. OTOH, I am well aware that producing vegatarian food also kills animals in its production. I ride a horse that has been gelded, but lives out in a large paddock with companions; my cats are all desexed and live indoors, a price they have to pay for being otherwise looked after well, and acknowledging (on my part) that the birds in my garden are entitled to a life, too. In this context, having foie gras occasionally is just a treat, and I can do that because I think there is no cruelty in tube-feeding a bird, since birds show no evidence of pain when fed. So if you think it is cruel, by all means oppose it. But unless you actually have proof it is cruel, I see no reason why production of it ought to be forbidden, or people lectured to because they eat it, or any other animal product.

Simple explanation:

If Animal Friendly does not approve that action is cruel. End of story.

Now all we need is for the rest of the world to conform to her moral decision because no other person or culture has the right to make a moral determination on their own.

(facts do not matter in this belief system or the stresses of merely being a chicken, for example, outside of a solid enclosure would be known and considered)

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With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

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'Where mercy, love and pity dwell, there God is dwelling too'

http://holy-lance.blogspot.com

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

You are very short on understanding Wayne, probably deliberately obtuse.

I will not spend the time explaining to you how people who are concerned about environmental, animal and human degradation and exploitation, are nothing more than a bunch of conformists.

Have a lovely day.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein