EnviroLink Forum

Only a day or two ago you were discussing with me part of a piece that I wrote (remember, you initially thought I had broken the rules of the forum?)

Now you are totally ignoring this fact to make the above false claim.

However, citing the works of other people is not a sign of not having an opinion, it is a sign of having an informed one and that is hardly a bad thing.

BTW, please note that I also cite sources that I both agree with, disagree with, and have mixed views on, so please withdraw this unwarranted allegation.

RY

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"If you think that being vegan is difficult, imagine how difficult it is for animals that you are not vegan," animal rights philosopher, Gary Francione, 2009.

Any idiot knows why wolves and lions have to kill, and only an idiot would blame them; but mentioning metal no-penis, you've brought up an interesting issue leading to an interestingly revealing answer for what is behind terrorism caused by hunters. I think this humorous quote bellow sums it up:

Men hunt, I think, maybe because they have something wrong with their own equipment, and they need something else to shoot.

But there is nothing funny about terror, murder and torture; so here is another sobering and frightening video. There is no blood or dead bodies of the animal persons victimized in it; but you can see some nasty faces by those who terrorize for profit and sadistic pleasure disguising it as another cowardly "sport."

Oh yes, in this video you'll also see some similar faces of police officers and hear some creepy drivel from sheriffs; all of them collaborating with these terrorists against animal persons.

This is very serious stuff! You must watch it! This is not "inane drivel," to quote Josh like these discussions about Hunters' Harem:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9974

or

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8439&start=0

Illinois has humane laws to protect animals, but rodeo thugs have nothing to fear in Wauconda, Illinois, where the Lake County Sheriff's Department and the Lake County State's Attorney's Office are in the tank for the Wauconda Rodeo.

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http://www.antebozanich.org

Ante, does this include the acts of some AR's toward researchers and the like? Or is that different?

and, please note that hardly anyone I know enjoys being called names. To that end, I don't know many people who would go around refering to themselves as "idiots", but I'm sure you would be all too pleased to point it out to them, wouldn't you?

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Demand American-Made; Buy ONLY American-Made

I am not sure exactly what you're saying. I did NOT call anyone names or an idiot, if that is what you are falsely attacking me for again. You must not be able to understand plane English.

If anything, I was responding to an insulting question one would only ask an idiot; therefore the question was, I believe, intended to personally offend me.

However, if you forgot already, let me remind you of your own direct name calling and personal insults several hours ago:



If you're lost and confused you can find this above statement by you here in the context of your eager participation in a group/gang personal insult, harassment and libel which has been also complete-web-page copied for the record:

If you can't understand what I am talking about, I suggest you have someone who can, explain it to you.

But right now I am going to get back to thinking and writing about ideas, not allowing someone to drag me into the gutter of their personal obsession, confusion, venom etc.

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http://www.antebozanich.org

Ante, just what terrorist act do you feel has been done by hunting.

Is it the killing of the animal?

Is it the stalking of the animal?

I always thought terrorism was the act of making someone fearful for their life or the life of others. But we all know animals do not comprehend fear, so how can there be terrorism when it comes to animals.

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I don't know what your problem is but I bet its hard to pronounce.

Well, animals do react in a manner that seems to indacate fear: a deer may very well be afraid of a deer-hunter.

The point to my question regarding the hunter/terror viewpoint was if a deer fears dying from a human deer-hunter, would the animal not also fear being killed by another animal, such as a wolf?
But to some, the wolf gets a waiver regarding it's terror-production ability.

Indeed, a deer shot thru the brain may feel nothing....not even terror. A wolf chewing it's way thru a pregnant doe's guts may produce pain to a degree I certainly hope to never face.

So: what, exactly, is Ante upset about? Surely, it can't be pain in itself; he's seems to be willing to allow a wolf to rip a doe and her unborne fawn to bits, a process that might take minutes. Fear? The doe, near as I can tell, is suffering every bit as much fear from the wolf as from a human. Indeed; in a brain-shot, the deer might feel no fear at all.

Tell us, Ante. If the wolves have it right and human hunters wrong; tell us what you think hunters can do to be more like the non-terrorist wolves. I figure, if we can learn to follow the same princples wolves use in the hunt, it should be ok for the ecology.

Now, now, little one. I didn't say you called anyone any names. If anything, you simply implied what you think they are. And, after all, you couldn't have meant what you printed clearly indicated, could you?

By the way, I happen to have a very good attorney, too. We might want them to meet some time.

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Demand American-Made; Buy ONLY American-Made

To flee danger is natural instinct. The deer can do nothing about natural instinct.

Fear is an emotion that must be comprehended for it to do any good.

If you'd never read anything about Hitler, would you fear him? Fear must be understood and comprehended to work.

For terrorism to work we must fear something, which means we must understand what it is we fear. Animals just follow natural instinct, which does not require thought or understanding.

That is why hunting cannot be terrorism.

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I don't know what your problem is but I bet its hard to pronounce.

[/quote]

oh yeah .... protecting the status quo. Somebody's gotta do it ..... they get their pay cheque and they have a means of paying their mortgage, sending their kids to school, the dentist, disneyland ... whatever it takes to have a "good life" ... we all want the "good life", right?

The rodeo folks want the same thing.

The ticket payers want the same thing too - with a little entertainment please! Give us something to do on weekends. Give us a meeting place where our friends and neighbors come. Rodeos are exciting! They are a tradition and part of our culture.

So what, exactly, is your problem??? Huh?

Howdy, Animal-friendly.

What's your thoughts on this hunters= terrorist thing?

Or did you give your view earier in this thread? It did grow once it got started...

Indeed, some human character from Iowa or New York shot through the brain may feel nothing....not even terror. A wolf chewing her/his way through his pregnant wife's guts may produce pain to a degree I certainly hope to never face.

Now, why would it be wrong for me to shoot that silly character from Iowa or New York? I guess, I should just follow the same principle wolves do? It would be good for the environment and the rest of the other human and nonhuman animals. Reducing human population would be good for everyone. After all homo rapiens are uncontrollably overpopulating the Earth and destroying it left and right like the wild fire with no end in sight. I could even eat this character's flesh. I heard that human meat is not all that bad.

Don't worry. I am not about to start doing this. I respect human and non human life equally and eating human and nonhuman body parts for me is equally repulsive. I wish you would too. I am sure that you want to live, and I am sure that animals have interest in being alive, experience fear pain and terror. I am also sure that you would try to run away from a wolf or from me in terror like animals run when their life is in danger.

What hunters and other killers of animals do is legal at the moment, but it is terror nonetheless. I do not base my morality and do not act on the bases of what is legal or acceptable or what you or wolves or anyone else does but what I see as being harmful and wrong.

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http://www.antebozanich.org

Ante, now why would you slight someone (human) who just may happen to live in Iowa or New York? Is there a hidden agenda in this?



Perhaps you could set an example by starting with yourself (just a suggestion).



Gee, into canabalism now, too?

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Demand American-Made; Buy ONLY American-Made

I think you would do yourself a favor if you stick with spamming the forum with such as "harem" or obsessively spamming the forum by chasing the spammers around the forum instead of your provocations which add nothing to the discussion of this thread, show your lack of understanding and transparently demonstrate what your intentions are.

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http://www.antebozanich.org

Nice suggestion, but who are you to make it of me? Is this a common response to those who ask questions of you for point clarification?

This is just a thought, but it would seem to me that you may be more successful at getting people to change were you to take an approach of trying to teach them in lieu of calling them names, accusing them of wrongs yet to be determined wrongs, and other stunts that pretty much cause others to hate you and what you stand for. Now, don't take this to heart because it's not meant offensively. There's an old saying that goes something like "you can catch a lot more flies using honey than vinegar". I may be wrong on that one, but I think you get the idea.

Basically it comes down to this. Obviously I'm not interested in changing my habits especially where it comes to feeding myself and my family. However, I haven't a completely closed mind in that I'm willing to listen to the opinions and teaching of others insofar as they are presented in a reasonable manner. A reasonable manner does not include having some ideal shoved down my throat, and that's what i think you are trying to do just by the way you word your responses.

Just think about it, Ante; maybe a little different approach may find your topic structure a littl emore favorable.

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Demand American-Made; Buy ONLY American-Made

I understand what you're saying and I have heard what you're saying before and have tried that before; but after doing this sort of thing for some thirty years, I have come to some different conclusions. What I am doing and my attentions are different than what you may think or perceive them to be. For example, I have no illusion that I can convince you of anything. I agree with one of my favorite thinkers and animal liberationists, Martin Balluch, that, to quote him, "humans are more social than rational animals."

I could be wrong, but I have come to these conclusions after much of hard thinking, hard work and sacrifices and this is what I believe at this time.

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http://www.antebozanich.org