Ante Bozanich wrote:
Grizzly Bear wrote:
No problem, Bozanich. There's more where that came from. You see, if one works hard, and shows perseverance and responsibility within the capitalist system, rather than being a freeloader and a loser, one gets to the point to where one can afford to do such things.
To some "honorable and hard" work is tormenting and murdering nonhuman individuals who, BTW, are much more intelligent than their tormentors. I am sure that those who were sending people to gas chambers in Germany also thought that they were "working hard and showing perseverance and responsibility within the system."
AF, I must say though, that I don't understand why you still waste your time with this ***** here? You seem to be intelligent and kind. Certainly, there must be something good and useful you could spent this time on instead?
Yes, and as you say, to some hard work is also tormenting other people. There were also many "ambitious" hard working members of the SS whose ambition gave them prominent positions within that party. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_SS_personnel
I don't consider "ambition" to be the hallmark of a morally and psychologically sound and integrated individual. Yet ambitious people do work hard to get where they want to be with the status and money as rewards for their efforts. They end up in the rat race though which can be brutal for them as well as the people they are competing with who have also been lead down that sorry trail. Quite unfortunate in my opinion. These are our lives which unfold into the presence of the here and now - which is really all there is or ever was and is therefore very sacred - so why not make our lives a work of art? (rhetorical) Some of us came to this understanding quite late, as I did (conservative Catholic upbringing) but at least we can apply the insights to the youth in our communities and give them the time and space to figure it out, unencumbered by the drone of big houses and big cars and the crazy idea that one must "get ahead" - whatever that means.
Something my little community teaches our children is to find out what they love to do - and do it!
- regardless of status and monetary reward. Sometimes when the little ones grow into adulthood, what they love to do happens to pay well and sometimes it doesn't. Regardless, if they have received the kind of guidance that does not include fear, they will most often discover their calling and find their fulfillment there. Then, "hard work" is also play, discovery, creativity and purpose.
As for why I spend and/or waste time on this forum ... I don't know. Sometimes it does seem a waste of time but I am attracted to it for some reason - maybe it's the same impetus that draws one to the gruesome realities of a car crash. But there's more. A sociological observation. A fascination with how people interact and the fact that this forum is a slice of society and is then a microcosm of that larger thing - the macrocosm that we call society. We wonder why we live with such incredible violence and most of us say we do not support violence ..... but then we end up being violent .... not just in action but in words too. These actions and words are us. Society is not some entity 'out there' somewhere. Rather, we are society - we make it up - with our words and actions. We're it. I know that must sound incredibly obvious and yet I think it isn't --- only because we tend to get so caught up with ideas and concepts that we miss the simplicity of it.
So I am interested.
But, yeah Ante, I do know what you mean .....
BTW - did you get wind of Velrow Rippers' "Fierce Light"? I hear it was recently screened in New York and I know that Velcrow was/is doing workshops in the centres where the doc is being shown. He is one (of many) who is doing some beautiful work. It might actually be a bit tame for you but excellent all the same. Ciao