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EnviroLink Forum • View topic - Join the Global Anti-Hunting Coalition (GAHC)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:12 am 
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Hello CatLady??
Want to actually answer the questions that I asked??

Caroline,
All you are doing is repeating old rhetoric and propaganda. You are spending way to much time finding and watching things that are made to do not but get an emotional reaction out of you......and it seem to have worked.

I pose the same questions to you as I did to CatLady.

Are you trying to make "yourself" feel good or do you really care about the animals??
And can you deal with not feeling good, even feeling horrible, about something, if it ultimately is in benefit of the animals??
Are you capable of putting the animals welfare above your feelings??

Try to respond by providing "direct answers" and not more AR misinformation, which has been proven to be incorrect over and over again.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:15 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:02 pm 
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Last edited by CatLady on Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:23 pm 
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"Not one of you could careless about starving deer....."

Your crystal ball needs a cleaning, Caroline.
My father and I hunted for years: neither of us gave a dang about antlers. It was about the venison. My father was of the view does were the best eatting, so those were his goal. I'd like to go elk hunting some day: for elk cow. Sorry, Caroline: you keep whimpering about all this 'sport' hunting; I'll just keep on feeding my family and friends. If you refuse to see any difference, I guess you're stuck with yourself on that half-truth.

Classic distraction on the CWD, Caroline. Clearly, you've posted on this subject before and are used to being cornered by facts. Nothing like hysterical whimpering, supplemented by nightmarish visions based on fantasy-land disasters to hide the real picture. You ARE the classic ARA.....

'Legalized terrorist'

You must have spoke with Ante once upon a time, Caroline. He's spewed that noise-without-substance more then once. In fact, he started a thread based upon it. I'll see if I can bump it for those interested.

I'm curious of your world-view, actually.

A couple questions, if I may:

Which is the largest location ever to effectively use deer birth-control? Which state has implimented a state-wide use of these methods? How well did they work?

Who do you feel should pay for the implimenting of these deer birth-control methods? Should locals be able to decide for themselves what method they wish to use for deer-control?

Define what exactly you think 'sports' hunting is. Do you feel it's different then hunting strictly for food?

The Ante thread I mentioned has been bumped. For those actually interested in the numbers regarding hunting accidents, page 8 of that thread has some info.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:19 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:17 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:13 am 
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I'm at work presently, so i can't post the articles I wish but I'll see what I can do in the tommorow.

You certainly seem to be good at the 'over-the-top' approuch to discussion, Caroline.

At the very least, you've livened things up.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:15 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:54 am 
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Last edited by CatLady on Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:21 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:24 pm 
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Well; let's see about Caroline's questions. I'll keep it basic....

I think the underlying premise of the question is itself in queston: I need convincing on what's being pushed as fact.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:34 pm 
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http://www.iowadnr.gov/wildlife/files/drhist.html


I'll tend to stick to Iowa and the midwestern states as my base of operations in this discussion; since their so deer...opps, I mean dear to my heart.

Info seems to suggest, Caroline, In Iowa, it's the habitat and climate that are the main factors in high-deer population; not hunting.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:51 pm 
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http://tiee.ecoed.net/vol/v2/issues/fig ... rview.html

Some additional info......

Note the factors stated as influencing populations numbers....


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:52 pm 
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Wow. If CarolineTC would lay off the ad hominem fallacies and the self-righteous, venomous diatribes perhaps we could actually have a rational discussion about deer populations. The subject of deer population management, particularly white-tails, is a complex, not simplistic, subject. It is covered constantly in papers published in professional wildlife management journals. There is no one single cause, and no one single solution, to the problem that some ( not all, I might add ) deer populations are too large. Causes for increased number of deer include the following:

- lack of natural top predators in many areas. Top predators would include species such as wolves, mountain lions, and grizzlies.

- increase in intensely cultivated agricultural lands in the past century. Deer are attracted to crops like corn, soy beans, and the like as an easy food source.

- the expansion of the suburbs. Deer are attracted to vegetable gardens, flowers, bushes, certain tree species, etc. found in suburban yards. Many places that are now suburbs were once rural deer habitat, but the deer do not leave. This is especially true in the heavily populated east coast.

- in many areas where deer population is considered high, there are private lands that are closed to hunting

- poorly thought-out deer hunting regulations/management that does not encourage the culling of enough females from the population. Many state wildlife agencies are now starting to realize that this is a factor and are adjusting their management strategies accordingly.

- a declining number of hunters because of today's highly urbanized/suburbanized society

As one can see, there are a myriad of things that could play a part in an increase in a given deer population. As such, to make a statement such as "hunting causes deer populations to increase" is actually quite irrational. Many ARs float out "deer contraception" as an alternative to hunting as a management tool. Deer contraception is not particularly viable as a solution in most cases. First is the poor cost-effectiveness of the operation, as it is extremely labor intensive. It is estimated that when both the labor and the cost of the drug itself are combined, it costs an average of $1000 to deliver one single dose of deer contraceptive. Second, is the fact that these drugs do not last a long time. One dose typically lasts one year, then the population has to be re-treated. Third, unless a particular deer population is isolated from other populations, it is difficult to treat enough does to achieve a net population decline, as new, untreated does can enter the population from other areas. Fourth, contraception does not produce an immediate decline in population, unlike hunting or other lethal control methods which produce immediate mortality in the population. It would take several years to notice a statistically significant decline in a contraception treated deer population if there is a lack of predators and/or it is not combined with a lethal form of population control. Fifth, is the possible ecological effects of using this, especially large-scale. We still do not fully understand the possible long-term implications for other wildlife by introducing these drugs into the food chain. And once the proverbial genie is let out of the proverbial bottle, it cannot be put back in. Deer contraception is simply a management tool available to biologists. It can be effective in certain situations, but not all, and probably not most. To push it as some kind of cure-all solution based on a knee-jerk, emotional dislike for hunting is reckless, irresponsible, and unwise.

I noticed the subject of Chronic Wasting Disease ( CWD ) was brought up in one of CarolineTC's rants. The air desperately needs to be cleared of the falsehoods and speculations in that post, as they are grossly irresponsible. These are the HARD FACTS about CWD:

- there has never been a confirmed case of a human contracting CWD

- the World Health Organization has determined that there is no scientific evidence to suggest that CWD is transmissible to humans. However, as biologists do not yet completely understand all aspects of CWD, it is advised that animals killed in known CWD-infected areas be tested for the disease and not consumed if they test positive.

- the mean numbered of infected animals in the population is actually quite low. For example, in the combined areas of northern Colorado and southern Wyoming, where CWD is most prevalent, it is 5% for mule deer, 2% for white-tail deer, and >1% for elk.

You can learn more about the facts about CWD here:

http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php

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Vegetarian: Old Native American word meaning really bad hunter.


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