EnviroLink Forum

No problem, Bozanich. There's more where that came from. You see, if one works hard, and shows perseverance and responsibility within the capitalist system, rather than being a freeloader and a loser, one gets to the point to where one can afford to do such things. [/quote]

Oh pleeeese Grizzly! As if we all don't work hard - no matter the system. We ALL show perserverance and accountability - it's what we are made of. We are made to care and love for one another. This is our natural order. We can all go to Mexico and/or Hawaii if we decide to. And yet we might decide not to .... for various reasons ...
for carious good reasons ....

Oh pleeeese Grizzly! As if we all don't work hard - no matter the system. We ALL show perserverance and accountability - it's what we are made of. We are made to care and love for one another. This is our natural order. We can all go to Mexico and/or Hawaii if we decide to. And yet we might decide not to .... for various reasons ...
for carious good reasons ....[/quote]


And you know I meant "various" good reasons ....

And you know I meant "various" good reasons ....[/quote]



This from someone that never noticed that the person being addressed by grizzly, thinks hard work is extending their dumpster diving flipper-ed feet out of a garbage bin.

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I use red, not because of anger but to define my posts to catch rebuttals latter and it makes the quote feature redundent for me. The rest of you pick your own color.

Life is a time capsule we strive to fill with precious memories.

See what I mean? No point responding. But the rest is worth the discussion ... and so we will go .....

This from someone that never noticed that the person being addressed by grizzly, thinks hard work is extending their dumpster diving flipper-ed feet out of a garbage bin.
[/quote]

No. We all noticed it Donny. We aren't questioning the notice. What do you consider notice? What do you consider work?

This from someone that never noticed that the person being addressed by grizzly, thinks hard work is extending their dumpster diving flipper-ed feet out of a garbage bin.
[/quote]


Dumpster-diving is hard work. Most dumpster divers are probably not the least afraid of hard work. Many of them work long days is offices or other jobs before heading out for another hour or two on the streets and then there's all the sorting one must do and the time it takes to contribute to community kitchens .....

Oh pleeeese Grizzly! As if we all don't work hard - no matter the system. We ALL show perserverance and accountability - it's what we are made of. We are made to care and love for one another. This is our natural order. We can all go to Mexico and/or Hawaii if we decide to. And yet we might decide not to .... for various reasons ...
for carious good reasons ....[/quote]


Seem to have struck a nerve, there huh A-F? Thou doth protest too much me thinks. BTW, if you think everyone in society is hard-working and shows accountability, then you are truly living in fantasy-land. Bottom line: there are people in society who are freeloaders, lazy, unambitious, underachieving, irresponsible, and have a mentality that they are entitled to be cared for by others. To claim otherwise is like saying the world is flat.

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Vegetarian: Old Native American word meaning really bad hunter.

Seem to have struck a nerve, there huh A-F? Thou doth protest too much me thinks. BTW, if you think everyone in society is hard-working and shows accountability, then you are truly living in fantasy-land. Bottom line: there are people in society who are freeloaders, lazy, unambitious, underachieving, irresponsible, and have a mentality that they are entitled to be cared for by others. To claim otherwise is like saying the world is flat.[/quote]


I don't disagree, but I very much doubt the likes of Ante would fit into that category.

Hmmm ... and I will add that because people are dumpster diving does not make them "losers". In fact, they are contributing by lessening the waste which goes into the landfills. They tend to share the bounty and thereby create community. The waste is created by the capitalist system under which we all must operate. I don't believe that those who have a difficult time operating under such a system lack fortitude or industry.

Consider Jiddu Krishnamurti's reflection when he said "It is no measure of success to be well adjusted to a profoundly corrupt society".

You didn't specifically hit a nerve - but a nerve was hit while reading the rude, insulting responses to CL. She amazed me with her level of patience with most of you and she has probably called it quits because her patience was no doubt wearing thin. A good call on her part I'd say. She is a lady afterall.

I'm sure she is well aware that the comments made on this forum are not necessarily reflective of the general population - this forum turning into a dog-fighting pit from time to time, and that it is the nature of internet anonimity which gives license for such incredible rudeness.

Hi, I am not gone (yet) just was having time out from internet and some rest now all cats are now in one solid routine.

Thanks Animal Friendly for your input and observations. I took what you said on board and already had realised the situation also. I used to admin a games forum some years ago and know only too well how it can get. If I had seen something like this happen I would have been kicking asses and it would have been stopped in its tracks.

Yes, my main concern was for my animals during the shooting season and then other's animals and of course people living in the close vicinity namely me and my neighbour as we are way too near to the forest and stray bullets can happen especially if there is a bunch of folk all shooting at one time. It is a delicate and very difficult to get the balance correct. It's someone's business and indirectly through that, others' hobby or leisure interest which is opposite to someone's elses beliefs, choice of living and home and interest (as in preserving and rescuing life).
Living almost on the border of 2 countries and shooting immediately on the border is a gray area where rules are concerned.

I still believe there has to be a compromise between anti & pro hunting - no one side has a right over the other despite the rights that they think that they have to do it or oppose it.

On the subject of accountability, all this ''carry-on'' here would not improve the general opinion of those who think that hunters are blood thirsty & unreasonable, gun slinging individuals. If I thought that any hunters shooting near me had that level of behaviour or attitude that I witnessed here then I would think that my fears about them would be not unfounded. So if people do have fears for their animals, homes etc then perhaps it would be a good idea to help lay those worries to rest rather than exacerbate them and the general opinion.

CL

To some "honorable and hard" work is tormenting and murdering nonhuman individuals who, BTW, are much more intelligent than their tormentors. I am sure that those who were sending people to gas chambers in Germany also thought that they were "working hard and showing perseverance and responsibility within the system."

AF, I must say though, that I don't understand why you still waste your time with this ***** here? You seem to be intelligent and kind. Certainly, there must be something good and useful you could spent this time on instead?

Oh, please, Catlady...now you disappoint me.

Well; you came here under your own free will and said what you've said but I certainly can't understand how you came to the conclusions you have.

The oddest thing, too.....The more I read your posts, the more apparent I think it becomes....

There always seem to be just one more remark you need to add concerning how terrible hunters are.

Oh; you're quick to insist how you think hunting has it's benefits and how comprise is a good thing....

But then that little quirky backhanded comment or passing reference to any of a number of patent ARA- sung threats posed by hunters works it's way loose.

Maybe it's just your way of communcating..

Anyone else notice what I'm talking about? Or is it just me?

Maybe. I don't expect an AR proponent to sell me on their opinions if they're considerate, much less insulting, which most I've encountered are. CatLady, IMO, is more on the mild side but more importantly, she genuinely communicates her thoughts and feelings. There's little if any mainstream AR regurgitation. She doesn't like something because it interferes with what she does. Simple. Anyone can relate to that. If the circumstances happen to be providing cat care in close proximity to hunters that might shoot them, so f-ing what? If I were in her shoes, I'd be concerned too--and I hunt.

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TANG SOO!

Yep, came here of my own free will and said what I said.


I am telling how it is from some folks POV of hunting and hunters, not trying to get dig at them. Media, stories, hearsay... people form opinions on these things. People can only envision a poor animal being killed from a sports POV. Hearing of domestic pets who have got caught up in the hunt etc... People form opinions on these things.
People can worry about these things.



I am not that quick in saying it... because I realise intellectually that there are apparent reasons for shooting wild animals (or so I am told), it does not make me say or think "Oh! thats OK then, that makes me feel a lot better about it".
I accept that sick wild animals only may need to be culled or whatever... and I also realise that some hunters must believe that they are doing wild life and the environment a favour by hunting... I still do not neccessarily think in the same way or agree... Sure intervention is intervention whether it be to cull or hunt or to rescue and treat, shooting a wild animal is intervening with nature also.


I am telling how it is from some folks POV of hunting and hunters as I said above. Not making a sneaky dig at anyone. (If I wanted to have a dig it would be up front have done so before and can again but hopefully won't)
If pro hunters know something more about it all and they would prefer people to have a possible, better opinion of the whole thing and they feel that there is a general lack of education on the subject regarding the people who are making opinions in general, which are not favorable to hunting, also for the folk whom, when, they see hunters walking towards their area brandishing a gun and worry about their intentions towards their domestic pets and so on... then, what I meant was - anyone visiting this thread in the last week or so would not have learned anything other than they already originally thought, except perhaps even more negativity about it all. Was the point that I was trying to make.




I have tried to explain it better above



?

And, since I've made a parallel between genocide of nonhuman animal individuals and Holocaust and compared those who murder them with Nazis, here are only couple of classic quotations from two Jewish geniuses:

1. Theodor W. Adorno, who, according to Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy "was one of the most important philosophers and social critics in Germany after World War II wrote: "Auschwitz begins whenever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they are only animals."

2. Isaac Bashevis Singer, one of the leading figures in the Yiddish literary movement, and recipient of the Nobel Prize in literature in 1978 wrote: "As often as Herman had witnessed the slaughter of animals and fish, he always had the same thought: in their behaviour toward creatures, all men were Nazis. The smugness with which man could do with other species as he pleased exemplified the most extreme racist theories, the principle that might is right."

Enough said!