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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:15 am 
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Thankfully, there are many great game farms that protect and conserve wildlife.


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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
So what are you ARs doing to prevent the coming thermageddon ELE??? What are you doing to mitigate the suffering of the coming human population crash?? You do care about humans, too, don't you??? :razz: :razz: :razz: :mrgreen:

Spam about a South African animal preserve doesn't help their long term future if humans ruin the biosphere.


Right on Jameswill22! We have to take care of the biosphere first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”
― Chief Seattle


Last edited by Johhny Electriglide on Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:39 am 
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All i can say you really got a good aim and i will support you in that aim.


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 Post subject: Re: suffering in nature
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:58 am 
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thomas wrote:
I promote veganism and animal rights because I don't want the animals to suffer. In my opinion it makes no difference why somebody is suffering. So some time ago I started thinking about wild living animals. Their suffering is something that seems almost completely ignored or forgotten by most animal rights activists.

From what I have seen and heard and read, AR activists are almost equally concerned ..... although there seems to be several areas of concern when it comes to animals.

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In my opinion it is one of the most important concerns. For a simple reason: there are much much more animals in the wild than in factory farms.


I don't even need to do the math .... this statement could never be true. The number of animals killed on a daily basis in abattoirs each day is .... what do you think? have you looked into it? The number of animals that live in the wild is much more finite than the number that can be reproduced in concentrated operations which are designed for the exact purpose of breeding, raising and slaughtering. At such a rate, we would have killed off the existing wild animals sometime ago.

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And nature is cruel. Animals in the wild suffer from many things like predation, disease, parasites, injuries, cold, starvation, stress and more. Many animals give birth to hundreds or thousands of offspring hoping a few of them live long enough to grow up fully.


Nature is nature and has her own kind of intelligence. It is not up to us to question that intelligence and yet, because we are also part of nature ..... nature being made of rock and vegetation and animals, we use our evolved intelligence which is only natural. Animals do suffer in the wild and that is also natural. They hunt and are hunted. They get diseases and parasites. They sometimes starve. Yet they also thrive in many ways because they get to roam, procreate, and play. They are free even when they lay down to die.

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Our ethics concerning humans and human rights do not end with the abolition of slavery, so why should our ethics concerning animals?


The abolition of slavery has not ended our lack of ethics concerning human rights. If we can't even treat each other well, how will we ever come to the consideration of animals?

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'Many humans look at nature from an aesthetic perspective and think in terms
of biodiversity and the health of ecosystems, but forget that the animals that
inhabit these ecosystems are individuals and have their own needs. Disease,
starvation, predation, ostracism, and sexual frustration are endemic in so-called
healthy ecosystems. The great taboo in the animal rights movement is that
most suffering is due to natural causes.'
- Albert, in Nick Bostrom's "Golden"


This quote makes little sense to me. For instance, if one is looking at nature from an aesthetic perspective, then one is basking in the beauty ..... taking it in ..... etc. And since animals are part of that natural place , why would one not notice them also? And for 'Albert' to list sexual frustration as a reason for "scientific" intervention is ..... what? And if most suffering is due to natural causes, why is this the great taboo?


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