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 Post subject: universal distress
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:45 pm 
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I often wonder how much distress and pain goes on in the world at any given time. Incalculable. Some of you will know by my posts I have an affinity with any creature big or small, whether it be a half squashed snail in distress, a fly in the web or more important some African kid with a terminal tumour in her brain. If speech was universal amongst other animals then human perception would be very different. Hell I even pulled into a side street to let a fly off the windscreen today. Humans are given the power of speech and what do they do with it? Lie!
Two of my pet cats were recently poisoned to death. Acute renal failure by possible antifreeze. Hidie and Tigs. Yes they caused distress amongst the mice and bird kingdom in their short life but they didn't have the ability to empathise like us humans can, and yes I fed them meat. Macdonalds had their busiest weekend in their history. I just wonder whether i have got it wrong in my overall perception and empathy of reality or whether the majority are right. Accept certain animals must perish for our stomachs or believe life is a miracle and all life be sacred. Then comes the question why did God create spiders to make the web thet will catch the fly. Was Ghandi greater then God when he says all countries can be judged by the way they treat their animals.
A story I particularly like about Ghandi was when a woman took her child to see him concerning he was eating too much salt, Ghandi told the woman to bring the child back in three weeks. Three weeks came and the woman duly brought the child back and asked why. Ghandi says that he himself had been eating too much salt and so he would not be guilty of hypocrisy he abstained from salt for the three weeks and told the child not to eat so much salt.
In memory of my pets and other animals that have got a raw deal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU3Xeo0k ... 4B26C0327E
God bless those in distress, those that inadvertantly cause distress and psychopaths that know no different.


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:26 pm 
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I lost 7 good human friends in the past 12 months, AND my cat of 9 years.
My full blooded Sioux Godfather, and old WWII B-17 pilot, put it simply; "You just have to keep on living, until you die."
=D> =D> =D> =D> \:D/

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 4:39 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
I lost 7 good human friends in the past 12 months, AND my cat of 9 years.
My full blooded Sioux Godfather, and old WWII B-17 pilot, put it simply; "You just have to keep on living, until you die."
=D> =D> =D> =D> \:D/


In my experience death is not the end but what we do on this mortal coil is very important. I have experienced dead people contact me in various ways and also been the target of witchcraft. See Aleister Crawley. Not exactly a dimwit!

No force on earth except the complex God can exercise compassion to other creatures than that of humans yet we condemn our potential to that of a guttersnipe.


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:06 am 
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I often wonder how much distress and pain goes on in the world at any given time. Incalculable. Some of you will know by my posts I have an affinity with any creature big or small, whether it be a half squashed snail in distress, a fly in the web or more important some African kid with a terminal tumour in her brain. If speech was universal amongst other animals then human perception would be very different. Hell I even pulled into a side street to let a fly off the windscreen today ....


Hi Mothy. I would let the fly off my windshield too .... but only so that some spider might have it for dinner. If I find spiders in my home, I catch and release them outside. If a bird gets them, then my work is done. Not hindering a spider's or bird's food supply is good. I would no more attempt to prevent a lion from catching a gazelle as I would prevent a spider from catching a fly. But I wouldn't gratuitously kill (even a a nasty) fly or spider. Nor would I kill a gazelle, unless there wasn't enough alternative food supply. The lion has no choice; the spider has no choice. But I do. If there was not enough plant protein to sustain me, I would kill that gazelle too as I would have (if I had), no other viable choice. The suffering in our world is incalculable and sometimes pain is a necessary part of life. But most of the suffering on this little planet is unneccessary and , IMO, a result of ignorance.

Your comment about language is interesting. Animals do not have language and human babies also don't have language. For a long period, doctors would turn a baby upside down by its feet and hit the poor thing! because they had the mistaken belief that this was the way to get babies to breath when they were first born. One wonders who the "dolt" was that first decided such a thing was necessary, especially since babies had been coming into being on a regular basis for centuries and the era of hitting newborns was relatively short lived .... a fad. Thankfully we don't do that anymore but the idea of hitting a newborn came along with the belief that newborns, not having language, must also not feel pain. This is still a widely held belief because even though we no longer hit babies, we still circumsize newborn boys as if they can't feel it. And they are just newborns! What a way to introduce a person to the world!

Two of my pet cats were recently poisoned to death. Acute renal failure by possible antifreeze. Hidie and Tigs. Yes they caused distress amongst the mice and bird kingdom in their short life but they didn't have the ability to empathise like us humans can, and yes I fed them meat. Macdonalds had their busiest weekend in their history.

Cats are carnivores and must eat meat as they have no choice. We can empathize and we do have choice and we do have highly evolved brains and the ability to discern. Yet our ability to discern has been overshadowed by ideas and beliefs which really have no place in the here and now.

I just wonder whether I have got it wrong in my overall perception and empathy of reality or whether the majority are right. Accept certain animals must perish for our stomachs or believe life is a miracle and all life be sacred.

I don't think you have it wrong Mothy. There's not really a dichotomy here. Certain animals must perish. It's true. There is already something sacred in that fact alone. Some animals must also perish for "our" stomachs, and that has to be okay sometimes because how else could it be? But life is sacred and is itself a miracle. Being a human is a miracle and having such evolved brains is a miracle, and it also gives us the power of discernment. We have no choice but to use it.

Then comes the question why did God create spiders to make the web thet will catch the fly. Was Ghandi greater then God when he says all countries can be judged by the way they treat their animals.

I'm not sure what you (or anyone) mean when you speak of "God". The spider exists because it does. It has its own intelligence - it spins incredible webs in order to have food and to propogate. Maybe the fly knows this on some level. I don't thing Ghandi was greater than God or even believed in God. I think Ghandi was very aware of the sanctity of all life (which is probably why he didin't eat animals and also foughT for the rights of the colonized, subjugated, oppressed Indian), and I also see that people's ignorance can be "judged" by the way s/he treats animals. A country is made up of individuals. Society isn't out there somewhere .... but it is HERE, with you and me and every individual.

A story I particularly like about Ghandi was when a woman took her child to see him concerning he was eating too much salt, Ghandi told the woman to bring the child back in three weeks. Three weeks came and the woman duly brought the child back and asked why. Ghandi says that he himself had been eating too much salt and so he would not be guilty of hypocrisy he abstained from salt for the three weeks and told the child not to eat so much salt.
In memory of my pets and other animals that have got a raw deal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU3Xeo0k ... 4B26C0327E
God bless those in distress, those that inadvertantly cause distress and psychopaths that know no different.


Here, here! But many are considered sane who hold religious beliefs or beliefs about nationhood, or are stuck in some kind of ideology, some of which are obvious but most of which are subtle. Rooting out the subtle beliefs is a bit more challenging than rooting out the more obvious ones. Yet most haven't even begun to root out even the obvious ones. I'm not complaining or judging really ..... just an observation.


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 5:18 pm 
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animal-friendly wrote:
I often wonder how much distress and pain goes on in the world at any given time. Incalculable. Some of you will know by my posts I have an affinity with any creature big or small, whether it be a half squashed snail in distress, a fly in the web or more important some African kid with a terminal tumour in her brain. If speech was universal amongst other animals then human perception would be very different. Hell I even pulled into a side street to let a fly off the windscreen today ....


Hi Mothy. I would let the fly off my windshield too .... but only so that some spider might have it for dinner. If I find spiders in my home, I catch and release them outside. If a bird gets them, then my work is done. Not hindering a spider's or bird's food supply is good. I would no more attempt to prevent a lion from catching a gazelle as I would prevent a spider from catching a fly. But I wouldn't gratuitously kill (even a a nasty) fly or spider. Nor would I kill a gazelle, unless there wasn't enough alternative food supply. The lion has no choice; the spider has no choice. But I do. If there was not enough plant protein to sustain me, I would kill that gazelle too as I would have (if I had), no other viable choice. The suffering in our world is incalculable and sometimes pain is a necessary part of life. But most of the suffering on this little planet is unneccessary and , IMO, a result of ignorance.

Your comment about language is interesting. Animals do not have language and human babies also don't have language. For a long period, doctors would turn a baby upside down by its feet and hit the poor thing! because they had the mistaken belief that this was the way to get babies to breath when they were first born. One wonders who the "dolt" was that first decided such a thing was necessary, especially since babies had been coming into being on a regular basis for centuries and the era of hitting newborns was relatively short lived .... a fad. Thankfully we don't do that anymore but the idea of hitting a newborn came along with the belief that newborns, not having language, must also not feel pain. This is still a widely held belief because even though we no longer hit babies, we still circumsize newborn boys as if they can't feel it. And they are just newborns! What a way to introduce a person to the world!

Two of my pet cats were recently poisoned to death. Acute renal failure by possible antifreeze. Hidie and Tigs. Yes they caused distress amongst the mice and bird kingdom in their short life but they didn't have the ability to empathise like us humans can, and yes I fed them meat. Macdonalds had their busiest weekend in their history.

Cats are carnivores and must eat meat as they have no choice. We can empathize and we do have choice and we do have highly evolved brains and the ability to discern. Yet our ability to discern has been overshadowed by ideas and beliefs which really have no place in the here and now.

I just wonder whether I have got it wrong in my overall perception and empathy of reality or whether the majority are right. Accept certain animals must perish for our stomachs or believe life is a miracle and all life be sacred.

I don't think you have it wrong Mothy. There's not really a dichotomy here. Certain animals must perish. It's true. There is already something sacred in that fact alone. Some animals must also perish for "our" stomachs, and that has to be okay sometimes because how else could it be? But life is sacred and is itself a miracle. Being a human is a miracle and having such evolved brains is a miracle, and it also gives us the power of discernment. We have no choice but to use it.

Then comes the question why did God create spiders to make the web thet will catch the fly. Was Ghandi greater then God when he says all countries can be judged by the way they treat their animals.

I'm not sure what you (or anyone) mean when you speak of "God". The spider exists because it does. It has its own intelligence - it spins incredible webs in order to have food and to propogate. Maybe the fly knows this on some level. I don't thing Ghandi was greater than God or even believed in God. I think Ghandi was very aware of the sanctity of all life (which is probably why he didin't eat animals and also foughT for the rights of the colonized, subjugated, oppressed Indian), and I also see that people's ignorance can be "judged" by the way s/he treats animals. A country is made up of individuals. Society isn't out there somewhere .... but it is HERE, with you and me and every individual.

A story I particularly like about Ghandi was when a woman took her child to see him concerning he was eating too much salt, Ghandi told the woman to bring the child back in three weeks. Three weeks came and the woman duly brought the child back and asked why. Ghandi says that he himself had been eating too much salt and so he would not be guilty of hypocrisy he abstained from salt for the three weeks and told the child not to eat so much salt.
In memory of my pets and other animals that have got a raw deal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU3Xeo0k ... 4B26C0327E
God bless those in distress, those that inadvertantly cause distress and psychopaths that know no different.


Here, here! But many are considered sane who hold religious beliefs or beliefs about nationhood, or are stuck in some kind of ideology, some of which are obvious but most of which are subtle. Rooting out the subtle beliefs is a bit more challenging than rooting out the more obvious ones. Yet most haven't even begun to root out even the obvious ones. I'm not complaining or judging really ..... just an observation.


A very valid observation animal friendly. As I get older I feel a more close connection with all life.
I admit today I killed 6 ants that were in my porch,painless and quick but I killed them. Now I'm reflecting on actions. Scientists are just discovering that despite the size of insects brains they can achieve accomplishments far beyond what entomologists
would have perceived.
Now I go into amateur philosophical mode.

We are made in gods image. Is that mental aswell as physical? If so we should treat all creatures as they are our own offspring.

Pompous statement coming up i apologise.

When one can deviate from the television monster that was created for our dull entertainment and realise the emotional and philosphical impact that we have over fellow creatures then one can be truely be in tune with the world we live in.

Religion maybe the opiate of the people but I believe religion is satans way of dividing the masses
Just my two cents.

Thanks again animal friendly for that very philosophical reply.


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:25 am 
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THE MORNING AFTER.

Man I feel really bad about killing those ants. I feel I have killed part of my soul in the objective and subjective consciousness.
One of my cats poos in the porch and the ants gathered around that. I picked up the poo and took it to the toilet. One of the ants was still on the poo and ended up falling down the toilet, as I tried to rescue it it dropped down deep and drowned. A haunting image. On reflection I should have swepped them up but at the time I mistakenly saw them as pests. I'm not religious but there is alot to be said for Jainism.

Am I mad?


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:20 pm 
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You, mad?

Perish the thought....


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:19 pm 
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Mad as the proverbial Mad Hatter. Is it mercuric chloride unknowingly ingested?? :lol:

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“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 5:11 pm 
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Sometimes it seems Mothy's been to the all-you-can-eat mercury choliride bar, Johnny! =D>


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:25 am 
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mothy wrote:
THE MORNING AFTER.

Man I feel really bad about killing those ants. I feel I have killed part of my soul in the objective and subjective consciousness.
One of my cats poos in the porch and the ants gathered around that. I picked up the poo and took it to the toilet. One of the ants was still on the poo and ended up falling down the toilet, as I tried to rescue it it dropped down deep and drowned. A haunting image. On reflection I should have swepped them up but at the time I mistakenly saw them as pests. I'm not religious but there is alot to be said for Jainism.

Am I mad?



You are hilarious Mothy! Are you really concerned about those ants? If so, you might have left them with their dinner which was, at that time, poo! Sometimes, living things are just just so small. Why worry?


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 5:59 pm 
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mothy wrote:

Am I mad?


You're just as sane as I am :angel:

I couldn't resist saying that.

All you can do is your best. Accidents happen to plants, animals, insects, and humans. It's sad, but some things are beyond your control.


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:06 pm 
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Iowanic wrote:
You, mad?

Perish the thought....

If I wasn't mad I'm sure I would get your meaning!

[-X [-X


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:16 pm 
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animal-friendly wrote:
mothy wrote:
THE MORNING AFTER.

Man I feel really bad about killing those ants. I feel I have killed part of my soul in the objective and subjective consciousness.
One of my cats poos in the porch and the ants gathered around that. I picked up the poo and took it to the toilet. One of the ants was still on the poo and ended up falling down the toilet, as I tried to rescue it it dropped down deep and drowned. A haunting image. On reflection I should have swepped them up but at the time I mistakenly saw them as pests. I'm not religious but there is alot to be said for Jainism.

Am I mad?



You are hilarious Mothy! Are you really concerned about those ants? If so, you might have left them with their dinner which was, at that time, poo! Sometimes, living things are just just so small. Why worry?


I was considerate with your response, you to me not quite so.

Arthur Schopenhauer: All truth passes through three stages; First, it is ridiculed. second, it is violently opposed. third, it is accepted as self-evident.


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:20 am 
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Unless it's just dumb. Then it never gets past the first stage. :-


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 Post subject: Re: universal distress
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:31 am 
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Iowanic wrote:
Unless it's just dumb. Then it never gets past the first stage. :-

There was a time when it was dumb to think the world was round.


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