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 Post subject: Re: birth control
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:37 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
SiberD wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Not even the birth control pill is completely effective. A question such as this would be better directed to your physician than random posters on the net.


There is not too many times that I agree with Wayne, but on his answer I do....Wayne is pretty random.


Oh I dunno Siber .... and Wayne. I think this question is better directed at women as women have been given the responsibility of control of birth as their biology dictates. Giving authority to doctors might be a mistake, especially considering that some said doctor might be inclined to misadvise due to religious beliefs and inclinations .... or even political affiliations. Seems that politics and religion is not likely to part ways anytime soon with the nut-cases up for elections in the US.


And random women (or posters posing as women) would not have the same risks or worse? What about women doctors? Are they evil doctors or women?

Quote:
Random posters on the net would probably yield some pretty good advise .... if there were any women on this site, which there aren't, they would give all kinds of advise that a doctor would not.


And some pretty bad advise too ... the advise a doctor would not give on a health related issue, but someone posting as Barbie3849 would, is probably something better avoided.

Quote:
And I don't really understand your response to Wayne. He is very sturdy for the most part and his responses are beautifully square. Hmmmm ......"beautifullically square" .... a combination of pristine logic which is forever short-circuited if not informed by another aspect of intelligence. ie: forests are not lines of trees.


It is very simple, start by telling us what the OP's medical status is. You cannot. You only know what was in her post, which is very little. A doctor can have a real medical history and be able to have a conversation with more than a written feedback. I would question any advise to accept the input of random strangers over a trained medical professional on an important health decision.

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 Post subject: Re: birth control
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:09 am 
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"Not even the birth control pill is completely effective. A question such as this would be better directed to your physician than random posters on the net."

There is not too many times that I agree with Wayne, but on his answer I do....Wayne is pretty random.[/quote]

Oh I dunno Siber .... and Wayne. I think this question is better directed at women as women have been given the responsibility of control of birth as their biology dictates. Giving authority to doctors might be a mistake, especially considering that some said doctor might be inclined to misadvise due to religious beliefs and inclinations .... or even political affiliations. Seems that politics and religion is not likely to part ways anytime soon with the nut-cases up for elections in the US.[/quote]

And random women (or posters posing as women) would not have the same risks or worse? What about women doctors? Are they evil doctors or women?

Yes of course getting advise on the internet might be fraught with dificulty. It is now. And getting information from a "religious" authority such as a doctor who has been advised by the state to deny women their right for either birth control or safe abortion is also fraught with difficulty. It is not one or the other. But women WILL organize ... without a doubt. Women have information to share .... we ALL do .... inspite of the pharmaceutical corporation agendas and religious dogmas...... etc.

I didn't say that doctors are evil or that women doctors are evil. Doctors are not evil .... they just have a certain paradigm ... which they have been educated from ....

Quote:
Random posters on the net would probably yield some pretty good advise .... if there were any women on this site, which there aren't, they would give all kinds of advise that a doctor would not.


And some pretty bad advise too ... the advise a doctor would not give on a health related issue, but someone posting as Barbie3849 would, is probably something better avoided.

Barbie? You mean the Barbie with the anatomically imperfect and perpetually high heels? No ..... I was thinking about "us" as women, who could give the real deal. My advice would be to consult one's doctor and also to consult one's community of women. This is how we did it in the past as well. Before we gave all our authority to our family doctor who had been visited by a representative of some pharmaceutical company. Of course there is always the possibility of receiving information from some "Barbie" type as well which would not be much safer than a family doctor who has been visited by the pharmaceutical companies.

Quote:
And I don't really understand your response to Wayne. He is very sturdy for the most part and his responses are beautifully square. Hmmmm ......"beautifulically square" .... a combination of pristine logic which is forever short-circuited if not informed by another aspect of intelligence. ie: forests are not lines of trees.


It is very simple, start by telling us what the OP's medical status is. You cannot. You only know what was in her post, which is very little. A doctor can have a real medical history and be able to have a conversation with more than a written feedback. I would question any advise to accept the input of random strangers over a trained medical professional on an important health decision.[/quote

Yes but if we, a group of seriously concerned and informed individuals, were to ascertain from her history ... we could then rely, to some extent, on our combined knowledge and experience. We could then give information and guidance that a doctor could never give. This does not mean that we would deny the information and advise that her GP would give .... but we would integrate that knowledge and advise with our own. This is, actually, the way. We are already doing it Wayne. But if a Republican and right wing government actually got elected, we would turn up the heat. That little secret about Vitamin C? .... yeah, ... that would be widespread knowledge ... and that is only for "an instance".

You use the net .... how could you deny others from doing the same? You have powers of discretion ... quit being so alarmist .... and elitist I might add ...

Doctors are already f@#cking up ...... and the net will too but women should fall into the arms of other women.


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 Post subject: Re: birth control
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:53 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
Quote:
It is very simple, start by telling us what the OP's medical status is. You cannot. You only know what was in her post, which is very little. A doctor can have a real medical history and be able to have a conversation with more than a written feedback. I would question any advise to accept the input of random strangers over a trained medical professional on an important health decision.


Yes but if we, a group of seriously concerned and informed individuals, were to ascertain from her history ... we could then rely, to some extent, on our combined knowledge and experience.


To some extent possibly but not much. We would have to get that hsitory first, which would not be a very easy thing to do. Giving a bunch of strangers your medical history in the hopes they could give you information your doctor will not because of the "conspiracy" of medicine seems perfectly logical to me .... not.

Our combined knowledge and experience compared to the combined knowledge and experience of one educated and working in the field every day and who can refer to a specialist should that combination not be sufficient.

Quote:
We could then give information and guidance that a doctor could never give.


Yes, since most doctors would give guidance based on the research and not Aunt Berha's memory of what may have been a similar incident.

Quote:
This does not mean that we would deny the information and advise that her GP would give .... but we would integrate that knowledge and advise with our own.


Ahhh the wikipedia of health .... just what we need for population control. Kill of a bunch of those too foolish to live I suppose.

Quote:
This is, actually, the way. We are already doing it Wayne. But if a Republican and right wing government actually got elected, we would turn up the heat. That little secret about Vitamin C? .... yeah, ... that would be widespread knowledge ... and that is only for "an instance".


Rightttt .......... and just how effective is that "knowledge"? The statistics are probably not important to anyone but the one using the "knowledge" though, right?

Quote:
You use the net .... how could you deny others from doing the same? You have powers of discretion ... quit being so alarmist .... and elitist I might add ...


I do use the net, but I shy away from wiki sources unless I am looking for information on popular opinion. I can also get a decent feeling for the data presented, but in the case of something so health related I would want to consult an expert.

Quote:
Doctors are already f@#cking up ...... and the net will too but women should fall into the arms of other women.


Hmmm I just deleted some spam stuff with women falling into the arms of other women, but I do not think it was the same situation of which you speak.

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 Post subject: Re: birth control
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:50 pm 
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taneesha wrote:
What is the best birth control option for someone who cannot have estrogen? I get pregnant very easily, but cannot take the birth control pill anymore. I want a birth control method that will completely prevent fertilization. Besides condoms, what are the best options for me?


Celibacy.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:22 pm 
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As someone interested in breeding large numbers of rodents, birth control methods need to be cheap and nothing is cheaper then no sex (keeping males and females separated). When that is not an option, stopping sperm from reaching the eggs is cheap but usually permanent. We can stop sperm with castration or damaging the tube directing the sperm from the testes (vasectomy) but that does not stop a stray intact male from getting a whole bunch of females pregnant. The best option is to stop the sperm after sex from reaching the egg ("tubes tied"). Chemical birth control methods are not very reliable and especially with them being administered by free choice as is the case with humans. The unexpected sexual encounter (rape) is unlikely to involve condoms (on either gender) so cannot be relied on. Of course we have abortions as an option but it is really an after-thought.

Joke: there is a male contraceptive pill: put it in your shoe and you go limp.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Ann Vole wrote:

Joke: there is a male contraceptive pill: put it in your shoe and you go limp.


I don't get it.

Quote:
tubes or balls?


Compromise and do both.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Ann Vole wrote:
Joke: there is a male contraceptive pill: put it in your shoe and you go limp.


Where there is a will there is a way, but where there is a wilt ..... ain't no way.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:08 pm 
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GoGreenCO wrote:
I don't get it.

This might be a clue
Image


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 Post subject: Re: birth control
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:59 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
Quote:
It is very simple, start by telling us what the OP's medical status is. You cannot. You only know what was in her post, which is very little. A doctor can have a real medical history and be able to have a conversation with more than a written feedback. I would question any advise to accept the input of random strangers over a trained medical professional on an important health decision.


Yes but if we, a group of seriously concerned and informed individuals, were to ascertain from her history ... we could then rely, to some extent, on our combined knowledge and experience.


Quote:
To some extent possibly but not much. We would have to get that hsitory first, which would not be a very easy thing to do. Giving a bunch of strangers your medical history in the hopes they could give you information your doctor will not because of the "conspiracy" of medicine seems perfectly logical to me .... not.


I'm not talking about a conspiracy of medicine or any other kind of conspiracy. I'm talking about politics and the current GOP's outlook on social issues such as contraception and abortion. If some whacko Republican Christian got into power ... and they are already ... and continued to push for poor access to safe abortion or readily available contraception, women WILL resort to the internet. Some of the information they may find there will be from "Barbie Whoever" which will cause as many problms as the 'back-street' abortionists of old, (although many of the back street abortionists of old did their jobs well). But if this becomes the case, women will unite and begin to spread information. Women will OCCUPY abortion for better or worse. Sometimes it will be better and sometimes worse, but it will happen.

Heres' an example:

http://www.sisterzeus.com/Hsp1shlp.htm

But these days, methods of giving oneself an abortion will be both more sophisticated and more experimental. There is no way of stopping abortion and the GOP might do well to realize that.

I know women who have successfully ended unwanted pregnancies with Vit C. It's not common knowledge at the moment, but if politicians decide to interfere .... it will be made common knowledge for sure! .... and other methods will also emerge. It is simply unstoppable.

Women in African and South American tribes also have their methods which are largely plant-based. North American women will tap into that knowledge.

Pssst .... but don't tell Santorum!


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 Post subject: Re: birth control
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:24 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:

I'm not talking about a conspiracy of medicine or any other kind of conspiracy. I'm talking about politics and the current GOP's outlook on social issues such as contraception and abortion. If some whacko Republican Christian got into power ... and they are already ... and continued to push for poor access to safe abortion or readily available contraception, women WILL resort to the internet. Some of the information they may find there will be from "Barbie Whoever" which will cause as many problms as the 'back-street' abortionists of old, (although many of the back street abortionists of old did their jobs well). But if this becomes the case, women will unite and begin to spread information. Women will OCCUPY abortion for better or worse. Sometimes it will be better and sometimes worse, but it will happen.


Are you not describing a conspiracy as you claim there is none being discussed?

Quote:
Heres' an example:

http://www.sisterzeus.com/Hsp1shlp.htm

But these days, methods of giving oneself an abortion will be both more sophisticated and more experimental. There is no way of stopping abortion and the GOP might do well to realize that.

I know women who have successfully ended unwanted pregnancies with Vit C. It's not common knowledge at the moment, but if politicians decide to interfere .... it will be made common knowledge for sure! .... and other methods will also emerge. It is simply unstoppable.

Women in African and South American tribes also have their methods which are largely plant-based. North American women will tap into that knowledge.

Pssst .... but don't tell Santorum!


I do know of some of the methods of which you speak and how well they did not work for those who tried them. I agree there needs to be access to safe and effective methods of birth control and options should they be needed in the even the birth control failed, but that was not what the OP was wanting to know.

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