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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:20 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:

It hurts when the pro animal abuse lobby get their butts kicked, I understand you feel down about animals having a chance.


Where did that happen ... other than in your daydreams? You have been given the chance to grasp at straws and assume all of those ingredients used in cosmetics will not be tested on animals at any time in the future, but in reality the vast majority will continue to be tested for all of the other applications for which they are also used.


The loophole is exactly what I stated a year ago ..... those other applications will continue to be tested and those tests will NOT prevent the ingredients from being used in cosmetics.

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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:

Any ingredient used in cosmetics cannot be tested for the cosmetic use, but if it is also used in pharmaceuticals or is tested as a chemical outside of the cosmetic use, those animal tests will not preclude the use of the ingredient in cosmetics. Thus, the ingredients used in cosmetics can be tested on animals, but not just for the use in cosmetics.


Like botox?

Quote:
Say a company wants to use dihydrogen oxide in a cosmetic, but there is a concern over the use. They cannot use animal testing to determine the safety of the use. However, if dihyrdogen oxide is tested for exposure as a chemical used for other purposes, the company can then use it in cosmetics with some level of comfort. The same thing applies if dihyrogen oxide were used in some pharmaceutical application, which may involve an even greater level of testing and therfore comfort. The only thing they cannot do is test the new usage specifically as a cosmetic application.


Not the case, you need to read the directive and not hang onto reports in the press, quote legislation.


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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:27 pm 
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tommee wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:

Any ingredient used in cosmetics cannot be tested for the cosmetic use, but if it is also used in pharmaceuticals or is tested as a chemical outside of the cosmetic use, those animal tests will not preclude the use of the ingredient in cosmetics. Thus, the ingredients used in cosmetics can be tested on animals, but not just for the use in cosmetics.


Like botox?

Quote:
Say a company wants to use dihydrogen oxide in a cosmetic, but there is a concern over the use. They cannot use animal testing to determine the safety of the use. However, if dihyrdogen oxide is tested for exposure as a chemical used for other purposes, the company can then use it in cosmetics with some level of comfort. The same thing applies if dihyrogen oxide were used in some pharmaceutical application, which may involve an even greater level of testing and therfore comfort. The only thing they cannot do is test the new usage specifically as a cosmetic application.


Not the case, you need to read the directive and not hang onto reports in the press, quote legislation.


:- ](*,) :-

tommee wrote:
"A complete ban on the sale of cosmetics developed through animal testing has taken effect in the EU.

The ban applies to all new cosmetics and their ingredients sold in the EU, regardless of where in the world testing on animals was carried out."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21740745

=D>


Where did YOU quote the legislation? :-k

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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:44 pm 
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http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2013/0 ... es-though/

1) products containing ingredients that were tested on animals before the ban can remain on the shelves.

These can be deodorants to sunscreens.

2) new cosmetic products manufactured outside the EU containing ingredients that were tested on animals could still be sold in Europe, but only if producers are able to document their safety to EU regulators without using data gathered through animal tests, said EU health official Sabine Lecrenier.

Cosmetic products that contain pharmaceutical ingredients that have been tested on animals because of the EU’s rules governing pharmaceutical products can also still be marketed in Europe.

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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:46 pm 
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http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/sectors/c ... 013_en.pdf

The majority of ingredients used in cosmetic products are ingredients that are equally in use in many other consumer and industrial products, such as in pharmaceuticals, detergents and food, and animal testing may be necessary to ensure compliance with the legal frameworks applicable to these products. Ingredients used in cosmetics will generally also be subject to the horizontal REACH21 requirements and animal testing may be necessary as a last resort to complete the respective data packages. It therefore is for Member States to assess and decide whether such testing for compliance with other frameworks is considered to be falling in the scope of the 2013 marketing ban. Critical to this is the wording 'in order to meet the requirements of this Directive/Regulation' used in the Cosmetics Directive and the Cosmetics Regulation22 in order to qualify the scope of the 2013 marketing ban.

The Commission considers that animal testing that has clearly been motivated by compliance with non-cosmetics related legislative frameworks should not be considered to have been carried out 'in order to meet the requirements of this Directive/Regulation'. The resulting animal testing data should not trigger the marketing ban and could subsequently be relied on in the cosmetics safety assessment. Reliance on such data is subject to its relevance for the cosmetics safety assessment and its compliance with data quality requirements23.

Testing carried out for cosmetics relevant endpoints on ingredients that have been specifically developed for cosmetic purposes and are exclusively used in cosmetic products would in the Commission's view always be assumed to be carried out 'in order to meet the requirements of this Directive/Regulation'.

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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:49 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:

It hurts when the pro animal abuse lobby get their butts kicked, I understand you feel down about animals having a chance.


Where did that happen ... other than in your daydreams? You have been given the chance to grasp at straws and assume all of those ingredients used in cosmetics will not be tested on animals at any time in the future, but in reality the vast majority will continue to be tested for all of the other applications for which they are also used.


The loophole is exactly what I stated a year ago ..... those other applications will continue to be tested and those tests will NOT prevent the ingredients from being used in cosmetics.



Ingredients that are tested for cosmetics will not be allowed, like I said a year ago ;) Cosmetics tested on animals or their ingredients for cosmetics are not allowed. Like I said a year ago. :crazy:


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 Post subject: Re: We are winning!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:06 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
tommee wrote:

It hurts when the pro animal abuse lobby get their butts kicked, I understand you feel down about animals having a chance.


Where did that happen ... other than in your daydreams? You have been given the chance to grasp at straws and assume all of those ingredients used in cosmetics will not be tested on animals at any time in the future, but in reality the vast majority will continue to be tested for all of the other applications for which they are also used.


The loophole is exactly what I stated a year ago ..... those other applications will continue to be tested and those tests will NOT prevent the ingredients from being used in cosmetics.



tommee wrote:
Ingredients that are tested for cosmetics will not be allowed, like I said a year ago ;) Cosmetics tested on animals or their ingredients for cosmetics are not allowed. Like I said a year ago. :crazy:


Since you are clearly wrong, what you say about what is and is not allowed does not matter. The official statements concerning the directive say ingredients tested on animals for reasons other than cosmetic use can be used in cosmetics.

The member states may choose to disallow use of any ingredient so tested, but the Commission's position is that such testing does not violate the ban. You may hope or believe otherwise, but that does not make it correct or factual.

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