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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:32 pm 
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A large amount of animal testing now is devoted to finding a more accurate evolutionary animal lineage. This effort is mostly to prove evolution rather then to help mankind in humanitarian ways. Creationism does not need animal testing to prove it. It could be a good thing for vegans to embrace creationism instead of evolution simply to remove some of the justification for animal testing aimed at proving evolution.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:16 am 
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Not so sure on what testing would be involved other than DNA sampling, which is not what is commonly called testing. The stance for creationism would not seem to be a positive for vegans given the anti-science fringe connections would tend to work against their position. Especially since, in order to maintain a healthy constitution, the vegan diet requires the supplements science has developed. Not to mention the Bibical references to using animals and animal products, which again would set up a potentially hypocritical position.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:24 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Not so sure on what testing would be involved other than DNA sampling
What brought this to my attention was a study done on the early development of teeth in humans and mice. Tissues were grown in a culture for the human teeth but the mice had on-going tests during fetus development and mice were used for a higher litter size. It does not take too much imagination to see the sort of vivisection set-up they were using. The research is looking at how the genetics works for teeth development because teeth show up in most animals and is also closely related to bone development and other mineralized structures in even invertebrates. This particular test found that a particular gene was found on both the X and the Y sex chromosomes of humans but only in the X chromosome of mice. The result was showing that humans and likely the whole primate line have had a gene rearrangement after the separation of the rodent and primate lines. The development tests involved the use of high amounts of fluoride that interfered with the activation of this gene. That was just one of about 12 research projects I read about involving this same gene and vivisection of various animals to observe the fetal or egg embrio development of teeth (birds and reptiles have egg teeth). I also came across related research on other genes and watching the differences of development of tissues with or without the tested gene being activated.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Ann Vole wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Not so sure on what testing would be involved other than DNA sampling
What brought this to my attention was a study done on the early development of teeth in humans and mice. Tissues were grown in a culture for the human teeth but the mice had on-going tests during fetus development and mice were used for a higher litter size. It does not take too much imagination to see the sort of vivisection set-up they were using. The research is looking at how the genetics works for teeth development because teeth show up in most animals and is also closely related to bone development and other mineralized structures in even invertebrates. This particular test found that a particular gene was found on both the X and the Y sex chromosomes of humans but only in the X chromosome of mice. The result was showing that humans and likely the whole primate line have had a gene rearrangement after the separation of the rodent and primate lines. The development tests involved the use of high amounts of fluoride that interfered with the activation of this gene. That was just one of about 12 research projects I read about involving this same gene and vivisection of various animals to observe the fetal or egg embrio development of teeth (birds and reptiles have egg teeth). I also came across related research on other genes and watching the differences of development of tissues with or without the tested gene being activated.


Ahhhh, that makes more sense. The research was not into accurate animal lineage, but the deviation in DNA found was connected to changes after certain points giving some lineage information.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Ahhhh, that makes more sense. The research was not into accurate animal lineage, but the deviation in DNA found was connected to changes after certain points giving some lineage information.
more precisely it is the process of mapping the gene locations in different animals that requires bizarre and often cruel tests to figure out where each gene is in different species. Often there are key species to test and most or all of the species in a family will have the newly discovered gene location in the same area as a previously-known gene. The mouse is a good model because so many of the genes have already been mapped so there are lots of possible near-by genes to choose from that might be known in other animals. Human genome mapping is also accomplished through medical records... if you want to study ear genes... find a family with unusual ears and look for differences from normal and voila... you likely have located the spot on the human genome responsible for ear development. Note also that primates and rodents are quite close genetically so this is early research... later tests will be on other species. You will find lots of funding for platypus breeding efforts is from evolutionist organizations. They really want to map platypus genes as platypus-like ancestors are more like today's platypuses then the other egg-laying mammals, the echidna species (who were a more recent offshoot of platypus-like ancestors) but of course they cannot be doing vivisection stuff on an endangered species.


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