EnviroLink Forum

Community • Ecology • Connection
It is currently Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:54 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Help Save the Animals
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:20 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 2291
Location: Central Colorado
and other life forms, too, like plant species.
Years of Living Dangerously airs on Showtime starting April 13 at 10pm ET/PT.
"Nothing is more important to human society than preserving its natural capital. Nature does not need people, people need nature." Harrison Ford
:mrgreen:
http://yearsoflivingdangerously.com/

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:36 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 2291
Location: Central Colorado
Climate Change Causes Chain Reaction in Ecosystems
Ally Catterick, Fauna & Flora International | April 15, 2014 8:31 am |
"The study shows that many of the climate-related impacts on a given species occur as a result of changes in other species within the ecosystem, which then cascade through the food chain."
http://ecowatch.com/2014/04/15/climate- ... cosystems/

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:30 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 2291
Location: Central Colorado
Wimp ass AR perps want "cruelty free" food. It is cruel to kill vegetables, and animals, no matter what you think. Things are in a natural order and to feed living things, other living things must die, sometimes with pain, hopefully brief.
The cruelest thing people have done is over-breed and take over the biosphere in destruction, depleting, polluting ways.
The number of support species we need is in the many thousands, in hundreds of ecological niches.
Depopulating humans and stopping AGW with a 90% drop in EVERYONE'S greenhouse gases, ASAP, is MUCH more important than being cruelty free. For that type of reduction cruelty is a necessity that is not wanted, but faced. :mrgreen:

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:06 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1343
No, No, No Johnny. Discernment is needed here. Animals and vegetables are NOT the same. Vegetables do not have a nervous system. It is a mis-categorization to put them together. The rise of corporations in farming has created a factory situation for animals ... But neither plants nor animals are the same as chairs and tables. They are not objects. Yet, vegetables do not have a central nervous system and it is a mis-categorization to put them together with animals who do have a central nervous system. Of course, agri-business has created a factory for animals as if they are nothing but commodities and /or objects. But animals are not the same as chairs and tables. They are not objects. We are talking about beings who can feel pain and distress. We are not talking about objects. And yet they have been treated as such.

Quote:
Things are in a natural order and to feed living things, other living things must die, sometimes with pain, hopefully brief.


Of course! But not how we are doing it now .... The human race has never seen anything like this before. We have NEVER treated animals like this. Not ever. And how we are treating both animals and each other is reflected in how we are treating our environment which includes your pet topic .. over population. We cannot select the issue of overpopulation, which is a fact, without looking at how we are treating each other, animals, and the environment. They are connected.

Quote:
The cruelest thing people have done is over-breed and take over the biosphere in destruction, depleting, polluting ways.


We didn't and don't know that having babies is cruel. Most of us, in developed nations, aren't even having a lot of babies. Usually, the birth of a baby is cause for celebration. But now we are many and yet it is the least populated countries that are using the most resources.(Such as Europe, the US and Canada). We are having fewer but using more. Yet, over population is still a big concern and the best remedy to reduce population is to empower women and girls through education and the availability of resources. Give her the power, and she knows exactly what to do with it, because she is invested in it. Monsanto and their ilk are not the answer. In fact, technology in general, is not the answer.

Have GMO's created an answer to the under-nourished children in the US yet? Let me know when they do, because feeding hungry children is supposedly part of their mandate.

Technology is so helpful, but until we shift our consciousness, technology will only create more complications around ownership and profit and shareholders. Technology without heart = profits for some. Is that what it's supposed to be about? Or are mothers having a different idea?

Quote:
The number of support species we need is in the many thousands, in hundreds of ecological niches.
Depopulating humans and stopping AGW with a 90% drop in EVERYONE'S greenhouse gases, ASAP, is MUCH more important than being cruelty free.


This is the fragment I mentioned before. It is not MUCH more important because overpopulation is a result of the same consciousness that has created an equally abysmal situation for animals and how they are treated. Both are cruel and both are the result of a consciousness that is incoherent. We are over-populated because we are cruel. Same-same. The two are connected. In fact, nothing is separate from the whole.

Quote:
Dropping green house gasses, depopulating


Quote:
Add to this what you said, "Things are in a natural order and to feed living things, other living things must die, sometimes with pain, hopefully brief." ........
[/quote]

While this is 100% true for some species, it is not true for ours. We have used other species as an excuse for our own selfish desires. The need to consume animals is dependent on geography and climate. Humans have some degree of dependence on animals for food, depending on geography and climate, but we have turned it into a part of the entire economic system. We are trapped in this system, and we have dragged animals along for the ride.

And so we have carnivorous teeth just in case the need arises, ... as it sometimes does. This makes us adaptable. And yet, we have created an entire industry on the backs of animals and we justify it with economic reasons .... just as we justify polluting the environment. the degradation gives us jobs. And through that ability to rationalize, we have created a dismal situation for ourselves, for animals, and for the environment. It's all connected. Over population is part of that same cruel rationalization. You may simply choose only one aspect of the manifest confusion, but that is just a fragment. We need to look at the entire thing, which includes our treatment of each other and of animals and of the environment.

In smaller communities, we used to look after each other. We have risen in population and in confusion ... like the Tower of Babylon. But we have certainly never treated animals in this way just as we have never had these environmental problems, which includes over-population and climate change. They are part and parcel of the whole. You cannot name one without naming the other. They are connected. Everything is.

Social justice, animal rights/welfare, population, climate change, etc. are all connected.

And so you seem to want to ONLY ever address over population, which is a big issue for sure. But you seem to want to separate it from everything else. Not possible as far as I can see! It's a chaotic mess and animals have been victim to our confusion.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:15 am 
Offline
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20565
Location: Southeastern US
animal-friendly wrote:
No, No, No Johnny. Discernment is needed here. Animals and vegetables are NOT the same. Vegetables do not have a nervous system. It is a mis-categorization to put them together.


Animals have a different nervous system than plants, but there is some type of nervous system and communication system between plants. Just because it is different does not make it disappear.


Quote:
Of course! But not how we are doing it now .... The human race has never seen anything like this before. We have NEVER treated animals like this. Not ever.


Yes, there are more animal protection laws and regulations than ever and over a wider area of the globe. Animals are even being protected from themselves in some cases.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:19 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1343
Wayne Stollings wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
No, No, No Johnny. Discernment is needed here. Animals and vegetables are NOT the same. Vegetables do not have a nervous system. It is a mis-categorization to put them together.


Animals have a different nervous system than plants, but there is some type of nervous system and communication system between plants. Just because it is different does not make it disappear.

Quote:
Oops! Left out the word "central" as in central nervous system. One must be more precise!


Quote:
Of course! But not how we are doing it now .... The human race has never seen anything like this before. We have NEVER treated animals like this. Not ever.


Yes, there are more animal protection laws and regulations than ever and over a wider area of the globe. Animals are even being protected from themselves in some cases.


There are also more environmental protection laws than ever over a wider area of the globe ..... but the environment is going down in perfect rhythm with the entire disconnect from the whole. And as no animal, including the human one, is separate from that thing we call the "environment", we go down with it even as it is reflected so clearly in our relationships with animals, the environment and with each other. The writing is on the wall. Trying to solve one problem of the entire interconnected whole is attacking a fragment.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:05 am 
Offline
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20565
Location: Southeastern US
animal-friendly wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
No, No, No Johnny. Discernment is needed here. Animals and vegetables are NOT the same. Vegetables do not have a nervous system. It is a mis-categorization to put them together.


Animals have a different nervous system than plants, but there is some type of nervous system and communication system between plants. Just because it is different does not make it disappear.


Oops! Left out the word "central" as in central nervous system. One must be more precise!


Again, there may be a central nervous system, just very different from ours.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Of course! But not how we are doing it now .... The human race has never seen anything like this before. We have NEVER treated animals like this. Not ever.


Yes, there are more animal protection laws and regulations than ever and over a wider area of the globe. Animals are even being protected from themselves in some cases.


There are also more environmental protection laws than ever over a wider area of the globe ..... but the environment is going down in perfect rhythm with the entire disconnect from the whole. And as no animal, including the human one, is separate from that thing we call the "environment", we go down with it even as it is reflected so clearly in our relationships with animals, the environment and with each other. The writing is on the wall. Trying to solve one problem of the entire interconnected whole is attacking a fragment.


So, the treatment of animals and the environment is better than it ever has been, but the cumulative effect of abuse of the environment over the history of mankind is still a threat?

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:13 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1343
animal-friendly wrote:
No, No, No Johnny. Discernment is needed here. Animals and vegetables are NOT the same. Vegetables do not have a nervous system. It is a mis-categorization to put them together.


Animals have a different nervous system than plants, but there is some type of nervous system and communication system between plants. Just because it is different does not make it disappear. [/quote]

Oops! Left out the word "central" as in central nervous system. One must be more precise!
[/quote]

Again, there may be a central nervous system, just very different from ours.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Of course! But not how we are doing it now .... The human race has never seen anything like this before. We have NEVER treated animals like this. Not ever.


Yes, there are more animal protection laws and regulations than ever and over a wider area of the globe. Animals are even being protected from themselves in some cases.


There are also more environmental protection laws than ever over a wider area of the globe ..... but the environment is going down in perfect rhythm with the entire disconnect from the whole. And as no animal, including the human one, is separate from that thing we call the "environment", we go down with it even as it is reflected so clearly in our relationships with animals, the environment and with each other. The writing is on the wall. Trying to solve one problem of the entire interconnected whole is attacking a fragment.


So, the treatment of animals and the environment is better than it ever has been, but the cumulative effect of abuse of the environment over the history of mankind is still a threat?[/quote]
.
Really? The treatment of the environment is better than it has ever been? Wow. Where did you get that from? I cannot have more conversation with you until you might clear this up


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:14 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1343
animal-friendly wrote:
No, No, No Johnny. Discernment is needed here. Animals and vegetables are NOT the same. Vegetables do not have a nervous system. It is a mis-categorization to put them together.


Animals have a different nervous system than plants, but there is some type of nervous system and communication system between plants. Just because it is different does not make it disappear. [/quote]

Oops! Left out the word "central" as in central nervous system. One must be more precise!
[/quote]

Again, there may be a central nervous system, just very different from ours.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Of course! But not how we are doing it now .... The human race has never seen anything like this before. We have NEVER treated animals like this. Not ever.


Yes, there are more animal protection laws and regulations than ever and over a wider area of the globe. Animals are even being protected from themselves in some cases.


There are also more environmental protection laws than ever over a wider area of the globe ..... but the environment is going down in perfect rhythm with the entire disconnect from the whole. And as no animal, including the human one, is separate from that thing we call the "environment", we go down with it even as it is reflected so clearly in our relationships with animals, the environment and with each other. The writing is on the wall. Trying to solve one problem of the entire interconnected whole is attacking a fragment.


So, the treatment of animals and the environment is better than it ever has been, but the cumulative effect of abuse of the environment over the history of mankind is still a threat?[/quote]
.
Really? The treatment of the environment is better than it has ever been? Wow. Where did you get that from? I cannot have more conversation with you until you might clear this up.


Last edited by animal-friendly on Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:25 am 
Offline
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20565
Location: Southeastern US
animal-friendly wrote:

Really? The treatment of the environment is better than it has ever been? Wow. Where did you get that from? I cannot have more conversation with you until you might clear this up


History. There are now environmental rules and regulations in place to protect the environment which were never in place before. All of the restrictions on the environmental impact were not only allowed, but in some cases promoted.

What we are seeing is the cumulative effect of the prior history of abuse coupled with the ever increasing human population, which previously allowed the dilution of the impacts by the size of our ecosystem to hide those impacts.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:56 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1343
Wayne Stollings wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:


Really? The treatment of the environment is better than it has ever been? Wow. Where did you get that from? I cannot have more conversation with you until you might clear this up.


Quote:
History. There are now environmental rules and regulations in place to protect the environment which were never in place before.


That's because the assault on the environment was never there in the first place! C'mon Wayne.
Quote:

Quote:
All of the restrictions on the environmental impact were not only allowed, but in some cases promoted.


Of course they were promoted!

Quote:
What we are seeing is the cumulative effect of the prior history of abuse coupled with the ever increasing human population, which previously allowed the dilution of the impacts by the size of our ecosystem to hide those impacts


Prior history of abuse? History of the environment? Where does that put us? The environment was once clean and clear of corporate mishap. The environmental rules and regulations in place now were not needed in previous times anyways. The reason we have more environmental protection acts is that we have more environmental degradations. When there is such abuse, there are regulations toward that abuse.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:29 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1343
"the treatment of animals and the environment is better than it ever has been"

Wayne, the treatment of the environment, of which we are all a part, is abysmal. Animals are included, as we are all.
How to respond to such a statement?

"..... but the cumulative effect of abuse of the environment over the history of mankind is still a threat?"

Yes, of course it is. it was and continues to be as long as our consciousness does not shift. Do you not feel the danger?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:45 pm 
Offline
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20565
Location: Southeastern US
animal-friendly wrote:
"the treatment of animals and the environment is better than it ever has been"

Wayne, the treatment of the environment, of which we are all a part, is abysmal. Animals are included, as we are all.
How to respond to such a statement?

"..... but the cumulative effect of abuse of the environment over the history of mankind is still a threat?"

Yes, of course it is. it was and continues to be as long as our consciousness does not shift. Do you not feel the danger?


Not as much danger as there was in the past though. what was done to protect the Passenger Pigeon compared to more modern endagered species? How about the emissions of harmful compounds? There are restrictions and controls now which were not in place when I was young.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:06 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1343
So, the treatment of animals and the environment is better than it ever has been, but the cumulative effect of abuse of the environment over the history of mankind is still a threat?

I'm still trying to figure this one out. I emphatically stated my observation and I think my observation is quite accurate ... that we have NEVER, in human history, treated animals the way we do now. And your response is that we have never treated animals and our environment better than ever? Really?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:18 am 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:42 am
Posts: 1343
Wayne Stollings wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
"the treatment of animals and the environment is better than it ever has been"

Wayne, the treatment of the environment, of which we are all a part, is abysmal. Animals are included, as we are all.
How to respond to such a statement?

"..... but the cumulative effect of abuse of the environment over the history of mankind is still a threat?"

Yes, of course it is. it was and continues to be as long as our consciousness does not shift. Do you not feel the danger?


Not as much danger as there was in the past though. what was done to protect the Passenger Pigeon compared to more modern endagered species? How about the emissions of harmful compounds? There are restrictions and controls now which were not in place when I was young.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group