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Prelude to Planet of the Apes?
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Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Prelude to Planet of the Apes?

http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140605/ ... 05182.html

The capacity for strategic thinking about the payoff-relevant actions of conspecifics is not well understood across species. We use game theory to make predictions about choices and temporal dynamics in three abstract competitive situations with chimpanzee participants. Frequencies of chimpanzee choices are extremely close to equilibrium (accurate-guessing) predictions, and shift as payoffs change, just as equilibrium theory predicts. The chimpanzee choices are also closer to the equilibrium prediction, and more responsive to past history and payoff changes, than two samples of human choices from experiments in which humans were also initially uninformed about opponent payoffs and could not communicate verbally. The results are consistent with a tentative interpretation of game theory as explaining evolved behavior, with the additional hypothesis that chimpanzees may retain or practice a specialized capacity to adjust strategy choice during competition to perform at least as well as, or better than, humans have.

Author:  animal-friendly [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Prelude to Planet of the Apes?

[quote="Wayne Stollings"]http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140605/srep05182/full/srep05182.html

Why did you post this study?

Author:  animal-friendly [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Prelude to Planet of the Apes?

Quote:
The capacity for strategic thinking about the payoff-relevant actions of conspecifics is not well understood across species.


No kidding! Including the human species.

Quote:
We use game theory to make predictions about choices and temporal dynamics in three abstract competitive situations with chimpanzee participants.


Sorry for the chimpanzees used for this study.

Quote:
Frequencies of chimpanzee choices are extremely close to equilibrium (accurate-guessing) predictions, and shift as payoffs change, just as equilibrium theory predicts.


Justifies keeping chimps behind bars instead of in their natural habitat?

Quote:
The chimpanzee choices are also closer to the equilibrium prediction, and more responsive to past history and payoff changes,
[/quote]

The chimps actually chose something? They would not have chosen to be behind closed doors instead of their natural habitat.

But we needed to know about the equilibrium prediction .... didn't we?

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Prelude to Planet of the Apes?

animal-friendly wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140605/srep05182/full/srep05182.html


Why did you post this study?


Because I thought that it was interesting.

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Prelude to Planet of the Apes?

animal-friendly wrote:
Quote:
The capacity for strategic thinking about the payoff-relevant actions of conspecifics is not well understood across species.


No kidding! Including the human species.


Actually the human species aspect is fairly well known.


Quote:
Quote:
Frequencies of chimpanzee choices are extremely close to equilibrium (accurate-guessing) predictions, and shift as payoffs change, just as equilibrium theory predicts.


Justifies keeping chimps behind bars instead of in their natural habitat?


I suppose that is just an added benefit. :evil:

Quote:
Quote:
The chimpanzee choices are also closer to the equilibrium prediction, and more responsive to past history and payoff changes,


The chimps actually chose something? They would not have chosen to be behind closed doors instead of their natural habitat.


That is an assumption not supported by any evidence presented.

Quote:
But we needed to know about the equilibrium prediction .... didn't we?


We already knew about the equilibrium prediction. It was how close to that level the chimps were able to get that was the unknown.

Author:  animal-friendly [ Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prelude to Planet of the Apes?

Wayne Stollings wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
Quote:
The capacity for strategic thinking about the payoff-relevant actions of conspecifics is not well understood across species.


No kidding! Including the human species.


Actually the human species aspect is fairly well known.


Quote:
Quote:
Frequencies of chimpanzee choices are extremely close to equilibrium (accurate-guessing) predictions, and shift as payoffs change, just as equilibrium theory predicts.


Justifies keeping chimps behind bars instead of in their natural habitat?


I suppose that is just an added benefit. :evil:

Quote:
Quote:
The chimpanzee choices are also closer to the equilibrium prediction, and more responsive to past history and payoff changes,


The chimps actually chose something? They would not have chosen to be behind closed doors instead of their natural habitat.


That is an assumption not supported by any evidence presented.

Quote:
But we needed to know about the equilibrium prediction .... didn't we?


We already knew about the equilibrium prediction. It was how close to that level the chimps were able to get that was the unknown.



Thank science for that revelation! You posted it because you thought it was interesting? Sounds like masturbation to me. But I'm sure the chimps appreciated it.

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Prelude to Planet of the Apes?

animal-friendly wrote:
Thank science for that revelation!


Always.

Quote:
You posted it because you thought it was interesting?


Yes, I am unsure how it is tht you do these things, but for me uninteresting articles are generally just left once they are read.

Quote:
Sounds like masturbation to me.


I fail to see the connection, but sometimes people make unusual connections in their own minds.

Quote:
But I'm sure the chimps appreciated it.


Given the fact they got rewards in the process, I believe it is very probable they did enjoy it.

Author:  Iowanic [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Prelude to Planet of the Apes?

Get your flithy hands off me, you damn dirty researchers!

Author:  animal-friendly [ Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prelude to Planet of the Apes?

Iowanic wrote:
Get your flithy hands off me, you damn dirty researchers!



That's what I mean.

Author:  Cobie [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prelude to Planet of the Apes?

Honestly, animal-friendly, can you just think about your contentions about the chimps and this study or do you not want to get facts in the way of your prejudices?

First, these are captive chimps and may have been captive born, and there is no place for them to go back to the wild unless you seriously prefer them to be bushmeat. But they will be, by law, taken care of in captivity for life, including going to a sanctuary (wjhere they will be just as captive, or do these animals have to be "free" as well?).
Second, these animals, engaged in behavioural and non-invasive studies, are kept in large enclosures, with lots of environmental enrichment, and allowed social contact, and they are kept in good health.
Third, the animals take part in these studies 'voluntarily', in the sense that you cannot make a chimp do such tasks (or do any task), only give it rewards if it does; and this does not mean that they are kept without food or water; just that before you feed them normally, when they are naturally hungry (as you and I are before mealtimes), they get the opportunity to get some tasty snacks.
Fourth, animals, not just chimpanzees, that are treated kindly by humans and get taught things for which they get praise and/or food, do not have to be forced to take part, they will freely (ahem!) come forward to do so, and when I was doing behavioural work with monkeys, where their cage mates could observe, they would rattle their doors to be let into the testing area and begin this really rewarding form of environmental enrichment, doing a task and engaging with that most interesting of play things, a human being. In Leipzig Zoo, where there are large groups of all four great apes (western lowland gorilla, orangutan, chimpanzee and bonobo) testing areas are attached to the animals' indoor quarters, and the public can watch; if not taking part in research, the animals roam with their groups in the zoo's large outdoor enclosures, or in the spacious indoor areas if too cold outside.
On other words, what are your objections to the above research? The only thing is, the animals are not free - but you are making the classical anthropomorphic error of "knowing" what a chimpanzee would choose. Sure, a chimp might leave through the open door. But since you cannot explain its options,or the chimp, as far we know, consider these for its future, the only test we might apply is a preference test. I always thought it was telling that when people "liberated" minks, many of them did not leave their cages or even returned.
What you should consider about the study is that in this particular test, chimpanzees used their brains as humans would - having such data is much better than just rhapsodizing about how chimpanzees should be treated just because they have a large brain.
So, in summary, educate your self before opening mouth/putting finger to key board.

Author:  SiberD [ Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Prelude to Planet of the Apes?

Image

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Prelude to Planet of the Apes?

Selfie? :mrgreen:

Author:  Johhny Electriglide [ Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prelude to Planet of the Apes?

SiberD wrote:
Image
LMFAO!!!!
You don't mind if I take out your daughter, or are you an 'ist'? :lol: :mrgreen:

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