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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:34 am 
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this is an article by Pres. Jimmy Carter on the current situation in Gaza.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 45_pf.html


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:07 pm 
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Fosgate wrote:
Yeah I understand how some folks would cow down to hate-mongering, mortar lobbing terrorists and the populace that doesn't do a damn thing to hinder them. Good luck with that there, animal-friendly. If I were Israel, this s**t would have ended long ago.


Same here. You can't deal with terrorists by negotiating with them. I don't know why this fantasy persists.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:59 pm 
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rpedog wrote:
Fosgate wrote:
Yeah I understand how some folks would cow down to hate-mongering, mortar lobbing terrorists and the populace that doesn't do a damn thing to hinder them. Good luck with that there, animal-friendly. If I were Israel, this s**t would have ended long ago.


Same here. You can't deal with terrorists by negotiating with them. I don't know why this fantasy persists.
which fantasy are you referring to?

hmm, and why is Libya nowadays considered a 'good guy'? even though Mohmar Khadafi used to be public enemy number one? Libya was responsible for bombing a commercial airliner over scotland that killed numerous Americans and other nationals, and they were a major sponsor and exporter of terrorism for decades... Yet, ...through negotiations and what not, he's now one of the 'good guys'? 8-[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103#Victims

and the IRA struggle has come to an end, not because Britain bombed the shite out of Ireland, but because they negotiated...think about it.
:-k


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:07 pm 
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dog breath wrote:
hmm, and why is Libya nowadays considered a 'good guy'? even though Mohmar Khadafi used to be public enemy number one? Libya was responsible for bombing a commercial airliner over scotland that killed numerous Americans and other nationals, and they were a major sponsor and exporter of terrorism for decades... Yet, ...through negotiations and what not, he's now one of the 'good guys'? 8-[

and the IRA struggle has come to an end, not because Britain bombed the shite out of Ireland, but because they negotiated...think about it.
:-k


You really believe that it was negotiation that did it? That politics wasn't being played and isn't a game? That terrorists are no longer in Libya?

You really believe the IRA struggle is over? Its simmering and ready to explode. Its not over. They still hate Britain.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:20 pm 
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rpedog wrote:
dog breath wrote:
hmm, and why is Libya nowadays considered a 'good guy'? even though Mohmar Khadafi used to be public enemy number one? Libya was responsible for bombing a commercial airliner over scotland that killed numerous Americans and other nationals, and they were a major sponsor and exporter of terrorism for decades... Yet, ...through negotiations and what not, he's now one of the 'good guys'? 8-[

and the IRA struggle has come to an end, not because Britain bombed the shite out of Ireland, but because they negotiated...think about it.
:-k


You really believe that it was negotiation that did it? That politics wasn't being played and isn't a game? That terrorists are no longer in Libya?

You really believe the IRA struggle is over? Its simmering and ready to explode. Its not over. They still hate Britain.



my point is that Libya is no longer considered one of the 'bad guys', and they did negotiate with them to get to this point, as opposed to blowing them off the map or starving their people out. Although Reagan tried to assisinate Khadafi , that might have played a part too.

I wouldn't know if the IRA struggle is over for good but I do believe its moved onto the political stage and that there is no real active armed IRA component at this time. what the future holds, who knows. again the point is that negotiations got them to where they are now,... a peaceful solution to a problem that was not being solved by violence.

are you familiar with the USS Liberty?

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ussliberty.html


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:56 pm 
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dog breath wrote:
which fantasy are you referring to?


The one where they stop shooting long enough TO negotiate, maybe?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:41 pm 
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dog breath wrote:
my point is that Libya is no longer considered one of the 'bad guys', and they did negotiate with them to get to this point, as opposed to blowing them off the map or starving their people out. Although Reagan tried to assisinate Khadafi , that might have played a part too.


The 'bad guys' just moved their operations elsewhere. Thats the way it is with muslim terrorists. If more decisive action had been taken perhaps more lives could have been saved.

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I wouldn't know if the IRA struggle is over for good but I do believe its moved onto the political stage and that there is no real active armed IRA component at this time. what the future holds, who knows. again the point is that negotiations got them to where they are now,... a peaceful solution to a problem that was not being solved by violence.


The underlying problem isn't solved. The hate has existed for generations and is still there.

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are you familiar with the USS Liberty?


Yes. I also know you are looking at a site with a very clear agenda. If the goal was "full and accurate information" they'd include a lot more. They're very selective about what they include.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:48 pm 
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Fosgate wrote:
dog breath wrote:
which fantasy are you referring to?


The one where they stop shooting long enough TO negotiate, maybe?



http://www.antiwar.com/orig/niva.php?articleid=14022

"War of Choice: How Israel Manufactured the Gaza Escalation" by Steve Niva

:-k


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:42 am 
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disputing Israels' claim that civilian casualties were used by Hamas as human shields...

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090 ... 36290/1140


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:57 am 
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The ‘Oldest Hatred’

In Toronto, anti-Israel demonstrators yell “You are the brothers of pigs!”, and a protester complains to his interviewer that “Hitler didn’t do a good job.”

In Fort Lauderdale, Palestinian supporters sneer at Jews, “You need a big oven, that’s what you need!”

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Zj ... M1YjU2Zjc=

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:35 pm 
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and this , one more for the road...it was Israel, not Hamas, who broke this ceasefire, they did it in November by raiding across the border and killing 6 people...why? doesn't matter, it was a violation of the ceasefire...but Hamas is being blamed for starting all this by breaking the ceasfire 2 weeks ago...that's Bull...

Quote:
http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=14206&aid=19

CNN Reports Israel Broke The Cease Fire
Israel broke the cease fire in November. This video clip recounts the series of events and puts the blame on Israel. So one should ask, why is the media saying HAMAS broke the cease fire? Why would they lie?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:39 pm 
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dog breath wrote:
not nice,not nice at all. but do you ever stop to consider where this anger comes from? its not genetic or inherent in their culture. Its because of what's been happening to Palestinians in Palestine for the last 60 odd years...by every international standard, Israel is committing war crimes right now and has for 60 years. Yes Hamas also commit war crimes, but that does not excuse the government and military of israel for what they have been doing. read up on it...I have posted here a few more interesting links for you...


Jews have always been universally hated. Its not because of their battle with Hamas. I'm not bent on proving one side over the other. I've heard the arguments for both sides.

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and perhaps the UN might know what its talking about?


Since when? They're very selective in what they condemn.

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this is not an 'eye for an eye' or justifiable self defence...its like beating someone to death for trying to take your seat on the bus...its hugely disproportionate, and its war crimes...


In your opinion. I suppose they should just continue to sit back and put up with people who want to see their extermination.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:10 pm 
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In your opinion. I suppose they should just continue to sit back and put up with people who want to see their extermination.



Israel denies the right of Palestinians to exist in Palestine. This is the root of it all.

and furthermore, there is international law for a reason...individual countries don't get to decide for themselves what is, or is not, war crimes by international law...but it does come down to who has the will or the power to take action on those war crimes.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:19 pm 
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anyone think that there is 'balance' in this equation? think 'hatred' is not a key motive?
Quote:
http://atheonews.blogspot.com/2009/01/i ... clear.html

Israeli politician calls for nuclear strike on Gaza
Bethlehem – Ma’an – Right-wing Israeli politician Avigdor Lieberman proposed a "solution" to the war in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday saying, "Israel won't be secure so long as Hamas is in power, and therefore we need to come to a decision that we will break the will of Hamas to keep fighting."


yes b'y, nuke em all! that'll teach em!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:32 pm 
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dog breath wrote:
Israel denies the right of Palestinians to exist in Palestine. This is the root of it all.


To those who side with Hamas it is.

Quote:
and furthermore, there is international law for a reason...individual countries don't get to decide for themselves what is, or is not, war crimes by international law.


No one is bound by international law unless they choose to be.

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