EnviroLink Forum

Thats not what I said though they'd probably be having less trouble now if they'd taken a more decisive stance earlier. I would say your knowledge of history is limited by the links you put up.

[quote]we'll have to agree to disagree, but I'll attach a couple more references that helps demonstrate why Israel gets a 'hard time' in world opinion...
[quote]

There are plenty of references from both sides.

I know why they get a hard time yet those same people don't seem to bat much of an eye when it comes to terrorists and will put up with much more from them.

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"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com

I will make no excuses for Hamas or any other terrorists nor will I call them freedom fighters. Many of the same who are condemning Israel now don't say much about islamic terrorists and what they do to their own people (including Palestinians) much less others. I saw the story about Olmert. Why is it though that the UN bows to islamic demands and will not criticize sharia when it comes to human rights? That doesn't seem to bother many of those who condemn Israel.

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"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com

who says the UN does not criticise Sharia, and its not an issue in this case. Israel is not attacking Gaza because of Sharia, or are they now attacking them to bring freedom??? Sharia law is practiced in many Arab nations who do business with the US and other western nations on a regular basis, including some of the most repressive regimes on earth...but that's another matter.

people are condemng Israel for an unbalanced attack on a whole people, that is indiscriminantly killing civilians, including many women and children. They are not adhering to international law which requires that you take steps NOT to kill civilians, not to destroy civilian infrastructure and not to use them as human shields. yes, they are using palestinians as human shields. And if Hamas is doing the same, they should not either. War crimes are being comitted on both sides, but Israel is doing far more damage...I say, bring Hamas and the IDF up on war crimes charges,and let an international court like the Hague, sort it out...

The UN says it. I pointed it out to make a point not to defend Israel though if I had to choose sides I wouldn't side with Hamas.

"The Human Rights Council at the United Nations has now banned any criticism regarding Sharia Law and human rights in the Islamic World"

http://europenews.dk/en/node/13092



While largely turning a blind eye to what Hamas has done and continues to do.



No doubt you read that on a pro Hamas or muslim apologist site. There are plenty of sources which disagree. Did you know the Israelis told the terrorist whatshisname (too lazy to look it up) to leave with his family before they bombed the building he was in? They've done that before.

There's no winner in this. Iran is using Hamas and both want Israel destroyed. The pretense of peace isn't going to change that.

You are sure the Israelis are using Palestinians as human shields and questioning whether Hamas does? You can't be serious.

_________________
"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com

I don't doubt that Hamas is doing this too and in my last post I suggested that both sides be put before international law courts ...

Have you looked into any of the articles I posted? they are from a wide variety of sources and not particularly pro-hamas...just anti Israeli over reaching aggression.

What about Israel's attitude that the world can kiss its ass and that the US will jump to do its bidding? either the latter is true, or Israel just believes it to be true (which is also a problem...). did you read the posts on that subject? does it get any airtime in the US MSM? Rice orchestrated a ceasefire, then abstained from voting on it after Olmert called Bush and told him to 'back off'...or something like that. the US is denying it, but Olmert is standing by his claims...

I don't support hamas and to suggest that I, or other critics of Israel are hamas sympathisers is rediculous (your either for us, or agin us!??!) and a dodge from the real issues...human rights.

I have posted below a link about liberal rabbis and other religous leaders (in the US) , calling for a ceasefire, and who are complaining that the MSM in the US would not give them any coverage...Rabbi Michael Lerner has been a long time critic of Israel's heavy hand...

I support human rights. Yes, Israelis deserve to live in peace and not live in fear of rockets landing in their breakfast, but Palestinians deserve basic human dignity, freedom from oppression, freedom to live on their homeland and not be forced out by an 'expanding' Israel.

I'll ask you this, what is your take on the Israeli 'settlers' and 'settlements' in palestinian territory? and what is wrong with stepping back to the 1967 borders which would mean that Arab nations not currently accepting Israel, would accept Israel's right to exist, and the Palestinian people would have a homeland and dignity, which are denied them now. Hamas (being the democratically elected leaders of the Palestinian people...) have said that they would stop firing rockets if Israel moved back to the 1967 borders and lifted all blockades...

This debacle will not end until either the last palestinian is killed (can you spell 'g-e-n-o-c-i-d-e?), or until Israel accepts its 1967 borders and calls off the dogs. I firmly believe this based on all that I have read on the matter, and that I know moderates on both sides can sort this out of the extremist on both sides are put back into the box...



problems with Sharia are a completely different matter. I don't agree with sharia law, but true changes in any society can only come from within...when they are stable and not manipulated by foreign interests.

Here's my take. I would like a wall built around the whole region so they can either resolve it or kill each other off.



They'll never accept Israel's right to exist.



Changes to sharia won't come from within. The religion is rooted in violence in a way no other is. Muslims have been this way for centuries and sharia is infecting Europe too. Its now recognized in England.

_________________
"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com

I can't leave it on this note... I know that there are horrible uses of sharia, and I would not want to live under sharia, and don't support extremist views. However, Sharia is by definition Islamic Law, and varies as much as Islam does. How much does Islam vary? about as much as Christianity and Judaism and others do...

the Province of Ontario had allowed Sharia law in its 'alternate' courts to settle matters of personal law and family law, as it also allowed other religous laws (including Catholic), where both parties agreed...because the law courts were overwhelmed. Then in 2005? they banned Sharia law upon the ruling that it did not allow equal rights for women.

Sharia law is not by definition- stoning for adultery, female mutilation, cutting off hands/feet of theives...these are facts based on local interpretations of Islam, such as in Nigeria, and Iran (?), aphganistan (remember when the Taliban were 'good guys'?) and numerous other places.

I would not want to live under even the most moderate Sharia, nor would I want to live under moderate protestant or catholic law either. Separation of church and state is imperative!!!

To condemn all of islam for the actions of extremists is the same as condemning Christianity because some Christians don't believe in evolution, or because some christians want to see the 'end of days' unfold in the middle east... AND, its just invoking the boogie man...its islamophobic and unjust to many millions of people who represent the majority of islam and who do not behave any worse (probably no better either) than conservative or secular christians and jews.

try this explanation, from the Christian Science Monitor...hardly pro hamas source...

I didn't condem all muslims I said islam is rooted in violence because it is. Thats not "islamophobic", its reality and has nothing to do with fear.



They want more than dhimmitude, they want death.

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"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com

Israel was facing demands for war crimes investigations as it declared a unilateral ceasefire in Gaza last night after a 22-day assault in which more than 1,200 Palestinians, a third of them children, were killed and 13 Israelis died.


Two children were killed yesterday when Israeli tanks shelled a UN school in which families were sheltering, leading a UN spokesman, Chris Gunness, to say: "There has to be an investigation to determine whether a war crime has been committed."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 18910.html

What of Hamas' war crimes or other muslim terrorist war crimes? Where is the outcry for them using women and children as shields?

_________________
"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com

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I may be wrong, but I believe in this instance the question of war crimes is concerned with the use of tungsten bombs.

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I use red, not because of anger but to define my posts to catch rebuttals latter and it makes the quote feature redundent for me. The rest of you pick your own color.

Life is a time capsule we strive to fill with precious memories.

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I use red, not because of anger but to define my posts to catch rebuttals latter and it makes the quote feature redundent for me. The rest of you pick your own color.

Life is a time capsule we strive to fill with precious memories.

She already has a Price on her head but this Lady put a voice to just what is wrong with allowing Jihad to continue anywhere in the world.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciOGS6r97oE

And this Lady

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyIYKqMQ ... re=related


A nation that offers such mistakes towards other beliefs and their own women/children?? Right now the people pushing Hamas and supplying them with underground weapons, treat their own women like dogs & are at war with Christiana, Jews, Atheists, Buddhists, Hindus , and other sects of their own Religion. They thrive on hatred.

_________________
I use red, not because of anger but to define my posts to catch rebuttals latter and it makes the quote feature redundent for me. The rest of you pick your own color.

Life is a time capsule we strive to fill with precious memories.