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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:13 pm 
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Donnie Mac Leod wrote:
rpedog wrote:
dog breath wrote:
Donnie said to weed out the propaganda ...that's an excellent idea and everyone should follow that. Ask yourself where you get your information? who's posts it on the internet? who has researched and written it? I get mine from a multitude of sources (mostly American) that post news items from around the world. Many of my sources are Jewish as well. I have found numerous sites the expound the evils of islam , but they are typically unidentified sources, or non-islamic and likely anti islamic sources, pro israel.


People need to be honest about what they want the answer to be. Most unwittingly look for information that supports what they want to believe.



And the fact remains that not one nation nor religion/agnostics/atheists outside of the Muslim Religion, is not under attack by Jihad today. You can also factor in the reality that Arafat became a billionaire while his Egyptian born claim to Israel was a source of power & money to him. Meanwhile the hatred he stirred up throughout the Arab world supported continuous bombing of Israel even when Israel was not fighting back but looking for diplomatic solutions from the UN. That would be like Nero Fiddling while Rome went up in flames.


why are these nations being attacked by muslims?

and here's the goods on arafat...in spite of the violence of his early years, his latter years were involved in negotiating peaceful settlement with Israel...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:16 pm 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin

Yizhak Rabin, President of Israel assassinated by an Israeli extremist for negotiating peace...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:18 pm 
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rpedog wrote:
dog breath wrote:
Donnie said to weed out the propaganda ...that's an excellent idea and everyone should follow that. Ask yourself where you get your information? who's posts it on the internet? who has researched and written it? I get mine from a multitude of sources (mostly American) that post news items from around the world. Many of my sources are Jewish as well. I have found numerous sites the expound the evils of islam , but they are typically unidentified sources, or non-islamic and likely anti islamic sources, pro israel.


People need to be honest about what they want the answer to be. Most unwittingly look for information that supports what they want to believe.


which is why you must understand where your info comes from and you should try to prove yourself wrong, in order to prove your right. That's a basic scientific principle.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:19 pm 
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dog breath wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin

Yizhak Rabin, President of Israel assassinated by an Israeli extremist for negotiating peace...



Which was truly out of the norm for Israeli citizens to undertake such an action though Jihadists are known around the world for such actions,Dog Breath.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:23 pm 
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Quote:
why are these nations being attacked by muslims?

and here's the goods on arafat...in spite of the violence of his early years, his latter years were involved in negotiating peaceful settlement with Israel...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat



They are being attacked for the same reasons as the world faced their oppression from Mohamed's people in 650 AD. Nothing has changed other then the presentation of their propaganda.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:24 pm 
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dog breath wrote:
which is why you must understand where your info comes from and you should try to prove yourself wrong, in order to prove your right. That's a basic scientific principle.


My point is more along the lines of people tend to believe they are objective when they really aren't.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:21 am 
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Donnie Mac Leod wrote:
Quote:
why are these nations being attacked by muslims?

and here's the goods on arafat...in spite of the violence of his early years, his latter years were involved in negotiating peaceful settlement with Israel...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat



They are being attacked for the same reasons as the world faced their oppression from Mohamed's people in 650 AD. Nothing has changed other then the presentation of their propaganda.


can you look at western, christian history and not say that we have oppressed others in the world? its kind of like the pot calling the kettle black.

There has been a clash of civilizations through the ages, various cultures, various religions, empires, etc, fighting to expand territory and ideologies. They rise and fall like the tide , in history. Can you really say that Islam has been any worse through the ages than Christianity?

Many of the regional conflicts around the globe today are a result of the aftermath of European colonisation that left unnatural borders based on Euro sentiments or agreements rather than local custom and history. Hence, groups that would have adhered to natural local separations had been forced to share a country, with one group dominating the other mercilessly...Rwanda is one such example...with predictable results.

are any muslim extremists trying to convert christians or Jews? I doubt it but I can't say that there are none who have gone that far... they typically act on hating us for our actions that interfere with them in their lands...eg: palestine for one...(not for our freedom!!!)

think about apghanistan today...the bombing of wedding parties that kill dozens of innocent people leads to further radicalization of their survivors...leads to more extremist jihadis who want revenge...we are in a downward spiral until someone with power in the world realises this!

same with Israel and the Palestinians, until they reach a peaceful settlement, or kill every last one (seems to be their preference), there will still be rockets coming across their borders. With every rocket, the Palestinians are saying 'we are still here and we want our land back!"...

again, I ask, what right does Israel have to Palestine than the Palestinian Arabs do not have?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:25 am 
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rpedog wrote:
dog breath wrote:
which is why you must understand where your info comes from and you should try to prove yourself wrong, in order to prove your right. That's a basic scientific principle.


My point is more along the lines of people tend to believe they are objective when they really aren't.


do you feel that you are objective? try my approach and try to prove yourself wrong, if you can't then you might just be right.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:35 pm 
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dog breath wrote:
rpedog wrote:
dog breath wrote:
which is why you must understand where your info comes from and you should try to prove yourself wrong, in order to prove your right. That's a basic scientific principle.


My point is more along the lines of people tend to believe they are objective when they really aren't.


do you feel that you are objective? try my approach and try to prove yourself wrong, if you can't then you might just be right.


I have always used that approach but its ongoing because no one is wholly objective.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:25 pm 
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I have reposted this link , hopefully within forum guidelines...the previous post had 4 or 5 sentences instead of 2...anyways the link is there if anyone wants to read it. I'd love to hear comments on this person's POV. he makes some pretty sharp points, IMO.

Quote:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21798.htm

Zionism is an Incurable Disease of the Mind

By Zaid Nabulsi

… “Where is Nablus?” he asked, “I’ve never heard of it.” Then, after realizing that I knew he was bullshitting me, he pretended to remember, “Ah, Shkheim you mean?”..


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:10 am 
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just saw a couple more stories I'd like to post, with this question,...who is the victim? who holds the moral high ground?



Quote:
http://news.antiwar.com/2009/01/26/mili ... y-in-gaza/
Military Rabbi Urged Troops to Show No Mercy in Gaza
Rights Group Complains After Troops Told That Gaza's Civilian Population Was Not Innocent

http://wire.antiwar.com/2009/01/26/isra ... will-grow/
Israel's Netanyahu: Existing settlements will grow
Israel's Netanyahu says he'll let existing West Bank settlements grow, despite US opposition


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:07 am 
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Quote:
dog breath wrote:
I have reposted this link , hopefully within forum guidelines...the previous post had 4 or 5 sentences instead of 2...anyways the link is there if anyone wants to read it. I'd love to hear comments on this person's POV. he makes some pretty sharp points, IMO.

Quote:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21798.htm

Zionism is an Incurable Disease of the Mind



There is no doubt in my mind that the situation is insane and vastly unequitable. To take the land away from the Palestinians by force back in 1948 was an insane "solution" to the problem of finding a place to call home for the Jewish people. How could the dreamers of this scheme not have foreseen endless problems with this arrangement?

But now, I agree with you in that it is a "fait accompli" and that the Palestinian people must be listened to - otherwise it is plain to see where the next generations of "terrorists" will come from.

I have been off the board for some time, but I see that you have patiently and consistently provided excellent links which reveal to those who have been inundated by a biased media, a more complete story of what is really happening there. Much appreciated.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:48 pm 
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animal-friendly wrote:
I have been off the board for some time, but I see that you have patiently and consistently provided excellent links which reveal to those who have been inundated by a biased media, a more complete story of what is really happening there. Much appreciated.


Translation - I like your links because I agree with you. The complete story really doesn't matter.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:56 pm 
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rpedog wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
I have been off the board for some time, but I see that you have patiently and consistently provided excellent links which reveal to those who have been inundated by a biased media, a more complete story of what is really happening there. Much appreciated.


Translation - I like your links because I agree with you. The complete story really doesn't matter.


then what is the complete story?

do you beleive that Palestinians have no rights to the lands taken from them by Israel? where did Israelis live before 1948? where did Palestinians live before 1948? there is blood on the hands of both sides but who has rights over the other ? where did this start?

this link outlines where it started, from a Jewish , anti-zionist, source...

Quote:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

…The conventional wisdom is that, even if both sides are at fault, the Palestinians are irrational “terrorists” who have no point of view worth listening to. Our position, however, is that the Palestinians have a real grievance: their homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force, during the creation of the state of Israel…


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:37 pm 
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dog breath wrote:
rpedog wrote:
animal-friendly wrote:
I have been off the board for some time, but I see that you have patiently and consistently provided excellent links which reveal to those who have been inundated by a biased media, a more complete story of what is really happening there. Much appreciated.


Translation - I like your links because I agree with you. The complete story really doesn't matter.


then what is the complete story?

do you beleive that Palestinians have no rights to the lands taken from them by Israel? where did Israelis live before 1948? where did Palestinians live before 1948? there is blood on the hands of both sides but who has rights over the other ? where did this start?
[quote]

I don't have a horse in this race but if forced to choose sides I would not side with Hamas or anyone that supports Hamas. I've said that before. I've read the propaganda from both sides and have acquaintances who've lived in the area. In the end the tiebreaker for me is how Hamas treats its own people - brutally and callously. Thats not the fault of the Israelis.

Anyway, it was directed at animal-friendly who tends to only pick out what he/she wants to be true, not you.

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