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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:33 pm 
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Iowanic wrote:
Good to see ya stopping by, Wayne!

We could use some spicing up, hereabouts. I'll have to look around for some articles or reports to try to jump start things...


I do not think I am what anyone would call spicy .....

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:38 pm 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
This thread is about >>>getting Americans back to work.<<<
Now, back on subject.
The above links (in the first two posts) provide proof that Americans will take the jobs vacated by deported illegals(20+ million!), or the jobs taken by new immigrants we don't need because we are already overpopulated(see "Elephants in the Volkswagen" or "How Many Americans" both by the esteemed Lindsey Grant of NPG). The link to the laws broken with fines owed is a win-win scenario the head-in-the-sand politicians or the guilty don't want enforced. I want them enforced because we need the jobs, we need the fine money(to pay off the National Debt and prevent hyper inflation/world economic depression), and we need to reduce population to long term sustainable(deporting the 30 million illegals, both working and not, is a good start), with the corresponding reduction in emissions, other pollution and depletion of various resources.

Back on track after Wayne and Iowa's going off on a tangent. :roll: 8) :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:37 am 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
The win-win scenario is if not only the illegals are made to pay the 5 to 10K fines and be deported, and Americans getting those jobs and paying taxes. AND>>> Those who have encouraged them under section iv of Title8USC1324 pay the $5K fines for each illegal---even if only one million of the more than 10 million guilty pay---that is 150 Trillion dollars! That would get us out of debt, on to infrastructure repair, and toward a steady state economy, non-emissions power and a greener country. No tax write off for more than one child and a permit required with proof of at least 105 IQ for both the mother and father, would get us toward true sustainability, and stop the dumbing down of America. =D>
http://law.onecle.com/uscode/8/1324.html

This is how we get our economy and environment back on track and pay of the debt while reducing population. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:20 pm 
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Bump this up above the BS!!!
Here is a great song for all, too. Randy was Jimi's bro in the Blue Flames at the Cafe Wha summer of '66.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjN8Pdao ... re=related

http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthread ... lue-Flames

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:54 am 
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Johhny Electriglide wrote:
Bump this up above the BS!!!
Here is a great song for all, too. Randy was Jimi's bro in the Blue Flames at the Cafe Wha summer of '66.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjN8Pdao ... re=related

http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthread ... lue-Flames


This is fantastic rock n' roll history and this thread has been interesting .... especially with the others. But I would wish for some understanding in terms of paradigms. Johnny, you simply can't expect one country, such as the USA, to floursih without other countries also flourishing because one so called country's so called boundaries are so called. The pollution and over population is occurring on this planet ...... more so within some countries than in others. But we don't exist as a country. We do exist as a planet and no amount of nationalistic sentiment is going to change that fact. No matter how many times you sing the national anthem .... or I sing mine ... and I can't bring myself to sing my own national anthem or anyone elses when I am called to. I just can't because I know it's not true.

Loved the music. it's nature's way of telling us that something is wrong because nature knows no boundaries. Why do you insist on them? Operating as a country or member of a country? If you insist on being an "American" or any other group mentality which separates you from so called other people, then you don't see it. I see it and would like others to, regardless of intelligence which is varied anyway ... and always will be.

The borders are human made and intelligence is widewspread.

Whhaat?

Borders ar a conception .. they are a concept. Whhaat again?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:14 am 
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There seems to be a connection between state budget cuts and increased private unemployment ....

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/0 ... ding-jobs/

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:35 pm 
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Most countries enforce their borders and immigration more than the USA has. We are not some overfull lifeboat for parasitic attack by greedy on board and those who would sink us from outside.
Sure the old Star trek optimistic view of one planet and people all equal was rosy. There are just too many differences in our species for that to happen. We are not homogenous, and more like two or more different species, only one of which can live sustainably on Earth.... Getting rid of those who violated our borders and took American jobs, need to pay their fines and leave peacefully. Those who employed them, encouraged them, and aided them, must also pay their fines and do their time. Americans will fill those jobs and pay taxes. If those laws are not enforced, then why enforce any laws? And I want my money back I had to pay in fines for my misdemeanor! I want the money back it cost me to clear my name from felony arrests that were bogus, or the one for pot. Hey, the government gets away with corruption, should we all be corrupt???
I want the $350,000 in my own suppressed wages back!!! I want the great country America was when I was a kid back!!! I do not want to press 1 for English!!!! :x

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:23 am 
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Quote:
Most countries enforce their borders and immigration more than the USA has. We are not some overfull lifeboat for parasitic attack by greedy on board and those who would sink us from outside.


Who are the "greedy on board", I wonder?

Quote:
Sure the old Star trek optimistic view of one planet and people all equal was rosy. There are just too many differences in our species for that to happen. We are not homogenous, and more like two or more different species, only one of which can live sustainably on Earth....


We are not homogenous (thank god!), and yet it seems you are dividing the human race into two groups. Do you mean those with lesser intelligence are not sustainable because they do not behave in a sustainable manner? I would like to see more clearly your position.

Quote:
Getting rid of those who violated our borders and took American jobs, need to pay their fines and leave peacefully. Those who employed them, encouraged them, and aided them, must also pay their fines and do their time. Americans will fill those jobs and pay taxes. If those laws are not enforced, then why enforce any laws? And I want my money back I had to pay in fines for my misdemeanor! I want the money back it cost me to clear my name from felony arrests that were bogus, or the one for pot. Hey, the government gets away with corruption, should we all be corrupt???
I want the $350,000 in my own suppressed wages back!!! I want the great country America was when I was a kid back!!! I do not want to press 1 for English!!!!


I think the injustices done to you should be corrected Johnny. I think you should also get your money back from defending yourself from a bogus felony charge and for the pot fine. I'm also trying to see the connection between these injustices and having to press 1 for English.

I really am trying to understand your position.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:19 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
There seems to be a connection between state budget cuts and increased private unemployment ....

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/0 ... ding-jobs/

Image



Would you do us all a favor here ..... and interpret/explain? I kind of get a certain level of dysfunction in this .... but I may be off.
Please, take your time ....

AF


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:22 am 
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animal-friendly wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
There seems to be a connection between state budget cuts and increased private unemployment ....

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/0 ... ding-jobs/

Image



Would you do us all a favor here ..... and interpret/explain? I kind of get a certain level of dysfunction in this .... but I may be off.
Please, take your time ....

AF


Sure, the data from 49 states (Alabama is not included) on the governmental spending, employment rate, and other economic indicators and compared to determine the actual trends. The chart compared the level of spending increase/decrease from the national average to the level of employment change from the national average for each of the states. The data indicated the states who increased spending also increased employment (including private sector growth) while states that cut spending decreased employment (including private sector decline) during the same recovery period. This indicates the stimulus concept works, but only in relation to the amount spent. This is important because of the current push to lower the deficit to "create jobs", which is a concept not supported by the data.

From the attached article:

From the start of the Great Recession in December 2007 through the end of 2010, 24 states have cut government spending by an average of 7.5 percent after adjusting for inflation. Another 25 states have expanded government outlays by an average of 11 percent. (The analysis excludes Alabama due to data problems reported by the National Association of State Budget Offices). And the differences in these states’ economic performance could not be more self-evident. Relative to national economic trends, states that increased spending enjoyed on average:

•0.2 percentage point decrease in the unemployment rate
•1.4 percent increase in private employment
•0.5 percent real economic growth since the start of the recession
In contrast, states that cut spending saw on average

•1 percentage point increase in the unemployment rate
•2.1 percent loss of private employment
•2.9 percent real economic contraction relative to the national economic trend

Steep state spending cuts have gone hand-in-hand with rising unemployment rates, falling private-sector payroll employment, and lower growth in state’s gross domestic product, or GDP — the sum of all goods and services produced by labor and equipment in each state, less imports.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:43 am 
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Wayne that's a fairly noisy plot to be deriving anything from a linear correlation. Not to say one couldn't, but it'd be very weak if one did. I'd also question the statistical significance of any metrics derived from the data. For those of you in la-la land, what that means is that straight mathematical calculations will always give you an answer, but that the answer may not be sufficiently meaningful to draw conclusions or make reasoned decisions.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:34 am 
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Fosgate wrote:
Wayne that's a fairly noisy plot to be deriving anything from a linear correlation. Not to say one couldn't, but it'd be very weak if one did. I'd also question the statistical significance of any metrics derived from the data. For those of you in la-la land, what that means is that straight mathematical calculations will always give you an answer, but that the answer may not be sufficiently meaningful to draw conclusions or make reasoned decisions.


Yes, it is noisy and I would be concerned if it were not given there are more factors than just governmental spending involved. The assumption of reduced deficit creating jobs has even less correlation in this chart and I know of no other evidence to support it. The evidence of increased spending in the recovery from a recession does exist.

Similarly, the concept of increased taxes causing jobs to be lost does not have any real evidence either. The economic hypotheses used to support a position need tyo be more realistic.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:24 am 
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I'm not convinced that creating jobs is so much a solution in the first place. Consider employability of the available labor pool.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:58 am 
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Fosgate wrote:
I'm not convinced that creating jobs is so much a solution in the first place. Consider employability of the available labor pool.


The jobs lost in the recession would not have much relation to employability issues would it? Part of the problem with the economy is the confidence in that economy, which is why the claims of doom and gloom tend to cause a slowdown just because of the potential and optimistic claims tend to have the opposite impact. It is almost a placebo effect in some cases. But, when there is a cut in spending the economy will react accordingly regardless. The increased governmental spending seems to have offset the trend down and even reversed it in some cases.

The points from the data using changes >+ ~5%

4 states increased spending but had lower employment than the national average

12 states increased spending and had ~no change to increased employment than the national average.

0 states decreased spending but had higher employment than the national average

7 states decreased spending and had decreased employment than the national average.

The remaining 26 states had little changes in the spending and national employment rate comparison. The state locations should not impact employability of the residents should it?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:19 pm 
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I'm not suggesting there is relation at all. Just another way to look at it. Market gets tough, it gets tougher to find a job. I don't have that problem but then, folks like me put as much distance between themselves and unemployment as possible while we are employed. You know what I mean! :razz:

As for the numbers, yeah, increased spending seems to have offset a downward trend. It's still a weak correlation and not one I'd use in support of any point.

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