EnviroLink Forum
http://www.envirolink.org/forum/

Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism
http://www.envirolink.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14485
Page 5 of 6

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

SiberD wrote:
Quote:
A blog with an unavailable video? That really is cutting edge evidence ...... not.


Works on my computer... try reloading or maybe you should update your system.



Nope, still says, "This episode it temporarily unavailable", which does not seem to be a system update issue to me.

Quote:
Quote:
In your expert opinion, what should the government have done? The GOP and Democratic party both seemed to have taken the same view on necessary actions, but disagreed on the extent needed. So what was your opinion on what should have been done and why?


I'm no expert Wayne, you appear to be filling those shoes here. I believe in responsibility and accountability. The people, persons, responsible for the economic melt down should be accountable for the predicament. That didn't happen, they were rewarded.


Wait, that is completely different from stating there has been no recovery, that the attempts at recovery were misguided, or the recovery could have been started without a negative impact on the debt. The GOP should be held accountable for removing the oversights previously in place, but they were given a bye. The previous adminstration should have tied stipulations onto their assistance programs too, but they did not.

As for experience in economics, I have four decades of experience in corporate management that required a clear understanding of economics. That means I have first hand experience in how the credit crunch started and played out. I had also made changes to our commerical property loan portfolio prior to the issue because I had concerns our commercial banker did not have at the time, but saved us from very difficult loan renewal periods. I have also started and run a small buisiness for over 20 years now and most small businesses fail within the first five years. I am not an expert in economiocs, but I have more than a passing knowledge of it as a necessity.

Author:  SiberD [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

Quote:
Nope, still says, "This episode it temporarily unavailable", which does not seem to be a system update issue to me.


I don't know what to tell you Wayne. It works perfectly on my computer using the link provided *shrug* It was only a segment of an interview by 60 Minutes with Neil Barofsky who is warning of another bail out coming.


Quote:
Wait, that is completely different from stating there has been no recovery, that the attempts at recovery were misguided, or the recovery could have been started without a negative impact on the debt. The GOP should be held accountable for removing the oversights previously in place, but they were given a bye. The previous adminstration should have tied stipulations onto their assistance programs too, but they did not.


Oh please, don't make this a partisan issue. The democrats and republicans are but two different sides of the same coin and share the blame equally going as far back as 1913 when the FED was created. May I remind you also that the democrats allowed the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act to pass and was signed into bill by Clinton.

Quote:
As for experience in economics, I have four decades of experience in corporate management that required a clear understanding of economics.


I bow to your superiority.

Author:  SiberD [ Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

Wayne Stollings wrote:
SiberD wrote:
Quote:
You cannot recover quickly with a balanced budget.



Do you consider us to be in a recovery?


As opposed to the decline we were experiencing, yes. Has the economy recovered? No.


How's this recovery looking now?

Author:  SiberD [ Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

BTW, the latest food stamp statistics are out and we're at another all time high....sigh...

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Nearly 15% of the U.S. population relied on food stamps in May, according to the United States Department of Agriculture.

The number of Americans using the government's Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) -- more commonly referred to as food stamps -- shot to an all-time high of 45.8 million in May, the USDA reported. That's up 12% from a year ago, and 34% higher than two years ago.


http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/04/pf/food_stamps_record_high/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

SiberD wrote:
Quote:
You cannot recover quickly with a balanced budget.



Do you consider us to be in a recovery?


SiberD wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:


As opposed to the decline we were experiencing, yes. Has the economy recovered? No.


How's this recovery looking now?


Given the efforts by the GOP to kill it by taking us to the brink of default, it looks fairly stagnant now. I am amazed at the levels to which some will go in trying to reintroduce failed economic views, such as tax cuts create jobs in a recession .....

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

I read that corporate profits are the only real bright spot in the recent economic news, but the higher profits do not seem to translate into more jobs as the conservative economic concept states. Maybe it will just take a few more decades for the "trickle down" to be seen .... unless that trickle is the warm yellowish fluid coming from the boardrooms as that trickles down rather quickly.

Author:  SiberD [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

Ah, so your solution to the economic problems is to increase taxes?

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

SiberD wrote:
Ah, so your solution to the economic problems is to increase taxes?


Not exactly sure how you reached that leap of logic from refuting the claim that "tax cuts create jobs in a recession", since it appears to be a bit of a strawman. But if that is what you call closing tax loop-holes, yes, that is part of the current solution. It would prevent the need to cut spending as drastically, which would keep more people employed and assist in the strengthening of the economy. It is better than the inane focus on stopping deficit spending when the economy is struggling to recover.

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

I have always been amazed at the claim of tax cuts creating jobs, since the creation of jobs removes the costs directly from taxable income. Most companies do not hire workers unless there is going to be a financial benefit, not that it will impact the taxes paid on profits in some way. Usually, it appears the claims are made either by those who do not seem to understand how taxes are calculated or are desgined to mislead an audience which does not know how taxes are calculated.

Author:  SiberD [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

Quote:
It is better than the inane focus on stopping deficit spending when the economy is struggling to recover.



So, you're in the camp of inflating our way out of debt as opposed to defaulting on our debt? You do know that we cannot ever pay off the public debt, right?

Author:  SiberD [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

Wayne Stollings wrote:
I have always been amazed at the claim of tax cuts creating jobs, since the creation of jobs removes the costs directly from taxable income. Most companies do not hire workers unless there is going to be a financial benefit, not that it will impact the taxes paid on profits in some way. Usually, it appears the claims are made either by those who do not seem to understand how taxes are calculated or are desgined to mislead an audience which does not know how taxes are calculated.



I agree. I'm in favor of letting the Bush tax cuts expire.

Actually, I'm in favor of letting income taxes expire.

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

SiberD wrote:
Quote:
It is better than the inane focus on stopping deficit spending when the economy is struggling to recover.



So, you're in the camp of inflating our way out of debt as opposed to defaulting on our debt?


Infalting? What is the rate of inflation now? ~3.6%? Just above the average for the last century?

Quote:
You do know that we cannot ever pay off the public debt, right?


Really? Then why trash the economy now to make the show now? I forgot, it was to make a political ploy, sorry.

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

SiberD wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
I have always been amazed at the claim of tax cuts creating jobs, since the creation of jobs removes the costs directly from taxable income. Most companies do not hire workers unless there is going to be a financial benefit, not that it will impact the taxes paid on profits in some way. Usually, it appears the claims are made either by those who do not seem to understand how taxes are calculated or are desgined to mislead an audience which does not know how taxes are calculated.



I agree. I'm in favor of letting the Bush tax cuts expire.

Actually, I'm in favor of letting income taxes expire.


That would ensure that we could not pay the debt .... or even maintain basic services nationwide.

Author:  SiberD [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

Quote:
Infalting? What is the rate of inflation now? ~3.6%? Just above the average for the last century?


Oh, that's right, I forgot, you actually believe the bogus numbers the US Department of Propaganda puts out! Even if that 3.6% is true, which I doubt, on an annual basis, it's damaging. Over a one hundred year period a single dollar would inflate to over $34 with that rate!

Quote:
That would ensure that we could not pay the debt .... or even maintain basic services nationwide.



Listen up Wayne, we are never paying off the debt which stands at over $46,000 per every man, woman, and child and over $130,000 for every taxpayer.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

And you think if we abolished income tax and went with a more fair national sales tax we couldn't maintain basic services?

Quote:
Really? Then why trash the economy now to make the show now? I forgot, it was to make a political ploy, sorry.


Who said we should trash the economy? You're the one that keeps making this a political football, not I. I think both parties are to blame for the predicament we find ourselves in.

Author:  Wayne Stollings [ Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Putting the Compassionate in Conservatism

SiberD wrote:
Quote:
Infalting? What is the rate of inflation now? ~3.6%? Just above the average for the last century?


Oh, that's right, I forgot, you actually believe the bogus numbers the US Department of Propaganda puts out!


You have the "real" data? Is it included with a tin foil hat perchance?

Quote:
Even if that 3.6% is true, which I doubt, on an annual basis, it's damaging. Over a one hundred year period a single dollar would inflate to over $34 with that rate!


So you ignore your "inflating our way out of debt" aspect in favor of whatever this is supposed to mean?

Quote:
Quote:
That would ensure that we could not pay the debt .... or even maintain basic services nationwide.



Listen up Wayne, we are never paying off the debt which stands at over $46,000 per every man, woman, and child and over $130,000 for every taxpayer.


Than why worry about the current state and trash the economy now? Just sadistic fun or what?

Quote:
And you think if we abolished income tax and went with a more fair national sales tax we couldn't maintain basic services?


You mean the more "fair" tax that would exclude businesses from paying it?

Quote:
Quote:
Really? Then why trash the economy now to make the show now? I forgot, it was to make a political ploy, sorry.


Who said we should trash the economy?


The more radical GOP factions, including the tea-party groups.

Quote:
You're the one that keeps making this a political football, not I. I think both parties are to blame for the predicament we find ourselves in.


You can believe whatever you wish, but it is clear which of the two parties was willing to do their job and try to compromise to prevent the default and which took the position that it was their way or the highway.

Page 5 of 6 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/