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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:37 pm 
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SiberD wrote:
Wayne, you're so full of kool-aid, it is not worth trying to open your eyes. Just keep plugging your ears and going "lalalalalala, everything is gonna be ok, the gov't says so!"

http://www.shadowstats.com/article/no-438-public-comment-on-inflation-measurement


The same could be said of you in the inverse of someone on the Internets telling you everything is going to crash .... eventually .... really it is

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:47 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
HeritageFarm wrote:
All of what Romney said may not be 100% correct, but what he was correct. The Federal Reserve is just dumping money on the economy and messing everything up. They need to just butt out.


How are they "messing everything up" since they seem to be part of the current stabilizing influence?


1 in 2 Americans are now either Impoverished or very close to the poverty line; you call that "stabilisation?" And in my opinion, the only reason it need stabilization was because of interference in the first place. That and I feel that our excessive purchasing of Chinese goods is dumping us in the toilet.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:19 am 
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SiberD wrote:
Wow, that sure was some deep crap he was talking about at the expensive dinner! That bit about the poor unwashed and unworthy 47% that don't pay taxes! He's a riot!

Then he talks about the economy, did you catch any of that? This quote sure is scary! Hope he's wrong!

Quote:
Romney: Yeah, it's interesting…the former head of Goldman Sachs, John Whitehead, was also the former head of the New York Federal Reserve. And I met with him, and he said as soon as the Fed stops buying all the debt that we're issuing—which they've been doing, the Fed's buying like three-quarters of the debt that America issues. He said, once that's over, he said we're going to have a failed Treasury auction, interest rates are going to have to go up. We're living in this borrowed fantasy world, where the government keeps on borrowing money. You know, we borrow this extra trillion a year, we wonder who's loaning us the trillion? The Chinese aren't loaning us anymore. The Russians aren't loaning it to us anymore. So who's giving us the trillion? And the answer is we're just making it up. The Federal Reserve is just taking it and saying, "Here, we're giving it.' It's just made up money, and this does not augur well for our economic future.

You know, some of these things are complex enough it's not easy for people to understand, but your point of saying, bankruptcy usually concentrates the mind.


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/full-transcript-mitt-romney-secret-video#Fed



Yeah, but this is hilarious! "Bullshit Mountain". "Romney jazz"
People actually believe they are entitled to food! A roof! Medicine! ..... No way. How dare they?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km4BfW2836Y


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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:04 am 
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HeritageFarm wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
HeritageFarm wrote:
All of what Romney said may not be 100% correct, but what he was correct. The Federal Reserve is just dumping money on the economy and messing everything up. They need to just butt out.


How are they "messing everything up" since they seem to be part of the current stabilizing influence?


1 in 2 Americans are now either Impoverished or very close to the poverty line; you call that "stabilisation?" And in my opinion, the only reason it need stabilization was because of interference in the first place. That and I feel that our excessive purchasing of Chinese goods is dumping us in the toilet.


This is Wayne's idea of stabilization.....

Image

Food stamp participation is at an all time high. And the following graph showing the labor force participation rate is a more accurate statistic on unemployment. The unemployment rate that the Gov't uses does NOT count people who have given up looking for work or people who have rolled off unemployment benefits. It also discounts people who are working two, three, or more part time jobs. This is way more telling.....

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:04 am 
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HeritageFarm wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
HeritageFarm wrote:
All of what Romney said may not be 100% correct, but what he was correct. The Federal Reserve is just dumping money on the economy and messing everything up. They need to just butt out.


How are they "messing everything up" since they seem to be part of the current stabilizing influence?


1 in 2 Americans are now either Impoverished or very close to the poverty line; you call that "stabilisation?"


Considering what the depression would have looked like, yes, that would be stabilization.

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And in my opinion, the only reason it need stabilization was because of interference in the first place. That and I feel that our excessive purchasing of Chinese goods is dumping us in the toilet.


The Federal Reserve caused the recession? How?

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:08 am 
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SiberD wrote:



This is Wayne's idea of stabilization.....

Image

Food stamp participation is at an all time high. And the following graph showing the labor force participation rate is a more accurate statistic on unemployment. The unemployment rate that the Gov't uses does NOT count people who have given up looking for work or people who have rolled off unemployment benefits. It also discounts people who are working two, three, or more part time jobs. This is way more telling.....

Image


Yes, now compare those figures to the depression levels we could have hit without the stabilization. Momentum is hard to overcome and cannot be done quickly without massive resources and the ability to use them effectively.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:25 am 
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Some could argue that infusing money into the banks will only make the landing harder. Why should the banks get bailed out when they are the ones that created the majority of the financial problems to begin with by bundling mortgages they KNEW were bad into securities and sold them to unsuspecting mutual funds and pension funds? Hell, they even bundled up the same mortgages into multiple MBS's!

Why are interests rates being artificially low? Because allowing interest rates to go unchecked would make the government debt impossible to service. Never mind that in the process you screw savers and elderly retirees trying to live off any savings they have.

Sorry, but the too big to fail banks should be allowed to fail.

Yeah, the FED is doing a bang up job......protecting their own.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:27 am 
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SiberD wrote:
Some could argue that infusing money into the banks will only make the landing harder. Why should the banks get bailed out when they are the ones that created the majority of the financial problems to begin with by bundling mortgages they KNEW were bad into securities and sold them to unsuspecting mutual funds and pension funds? Hell, they even bundled up the same mortgages into multiple MBS's!


Some could argue anything, but the fact was there was a wall that was going to be hit and hit hard if there was not some increase in credit available. That was part of the reason the Great Depression lasted as long in the US.

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Why are interests rates being artificially low? Because allowing interest rates to go unchecked would make the government debt impossible to service. Never mind that in the process you screw savers and elderly retirees trying to live off any savings they have.


How do you decide when and how the rates are "artificially low"? Is there a leap that overwhelms the available credit? I am not seeing it so if you can point me to it I would like to.

Quote:
Sorry, but the too big to fail banks should be allowed to fail.


That is the Great Depression approach. It worked so well then I can see how you would want to try it again. So much for those savers and elderly retirees since they will not be getting any return if there is no lending to generate it.

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Yeah, the FED is doing a bang up job......protecting their own.


And the economy that relies on credit to function.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:51 am 
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The economy does rely on credit to function... Student loans to get through college because the colleges have turned into a megabusiness, credit cards so people can go deep into debt buying things they can't actually afford, and bank loans for all sorts of thing from cars to land. Sometimes, of course, that can boost you. Business loans can do great things if used right. But if used wrong, or if you get addicted to credit, your business model is flawed.
Inflation causes higher prices. But people's income does not go up significantly enough to make up for it, resulting in the average Joe ultimately having less money. Hence, the ability to print money at will is counterfeiting legalized, and is a form of taxation.
Our government has shown it's ineptness many, many times, yet we trust them to be able to just print money off the charts will-nilly? That is illogical. That much power corrupts anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:50 pm 
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HeritageFarm wrote:
The economy does rely on credit to function... Student loans to get through college because the colleges have turned into a megabusiness, credit cards so people can go deep into debt buying things they can't actually afford, and bank loans for all sorts of thing from cars to land. Sometimes, of course, that can boost you. Business loans can do great things if used right. But if used wrong, or if you get addicted to credit, your business model is flawed.
Inflation causes higher prices. But people's income does not go up significantly enough to make up for it, resulting in the average Joe ultimately having less money. Hence, the ability to print money at will is counterfeiting legalized, and is a form of taxation.
Our government has shown it's ineptness many, many times, yet we trust them to be able to just print money off the charts will-nilly? That is illogical. That much power corrupts anyone.


Yes, that whole ~3.5% average inflation rate is a "killer" :problem: :-

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:12 pm 
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You may not think it is. But what about someone on minimum wage? 3.5% makes a BIG difference to them. And just look at the fact that a dollar USED to buy you a lot, heck, a penny could even get you something. Now a penny is essentially worthless, most people don't even bother to pick one off the sidewalk.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:55 pm 
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HeritageFarm wrote:
You may not think it is. But what about someone on minimum wage? 3.5% makes a BIG difference to them. And just look at the fact that a dollar USED to buy you a lot, heck, a penny could even get you something. Now a penny is essentially worthless, most people don't even bother to pick one off the sidewalk.


It does not hurt them as much as being without a job, which is what happens during recessions and more so during depressions.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:05 pm 
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How exactly do you prevent inflation in an economy that relies heavily on fossil fuels for production transportation of nearly everything and those fossil fuels become harder and more expensive to harvest? Of course, you can blame whatever you wish, but the fact is there will be inflation when necessities have a higher demand than supply.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:53 pm 
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Only if you want there to be supply. If you let the free market take care of itself, oil prices would go up, people would consume less, and other prices would (somewhat) stay the same. Unless gas prices went too high, in which case, out the window with that as well.
But if what you say is true, then inflation should just be able to pick up the tail end of things. But gas prices are still going up. Inflation is a tax, plain and simple. It is also a very deceitful tax. A tax that cannot be seen by the majority populous is both very effective and very unfair. If everyone knew that the Fed can create money for the government out of thin air, and that the government relies very heavily upon this practice, it would create a revolution.
Let's just look at GM. Too much borrowing, too much spending, bad management, etc, got them bailed out. And now, governmental intervention on the part of Obama and the Chevy Volt (which by the way is a complete joke), and other things which I haven't researched very well, are causing GM to go under again. Ultimately this is the government's fault, as they are the biggest shareholder of GM. And honestly, who buys chevy? They only last for 150k miles and are junk! GMC gas guzzlers are much better. The Cadillac line is also very lovely and immortal (hopefully). But off track.
How about the postal service? The government raided it too much and now they have too cut back "because they aren't making enough money." When what is actually true is that they took too much money from the USPS for it to function.
Time after time, inflation fails to serve our best interests and our habit of borrowing and not paying back, combined with other factors including excessive laziness/welfare, corrupted corporate politics and economic strife, will ultimately result in the demise of our nation.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Mouth Romney....
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:30 pm 
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HeritageFarm wrote:
Only if you want there to be supply. If you let the free market take care of itself, oil prices would go up, people would consume less, and other prices would (somewhat) stay the same.


If you ignore that whole transportation issue that is included in the cost and thus the sale price if there is to be a profit. Of course, in a theoretical true free market the price is always as high as can be made so the only impact would be the lowering of profit.

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Unless gas prices went too high, in which case, out the window with that as well.


How high is too high?

Quote:
But if what you say is true, then inflation should just be able to pick up the tail end of things.


Not in a "free market" where the prices go as high as that market will sustain. Any increase in wages should be met by an increase in cost of products and services. Thus, either no increase in wages and the any rising cost of essentials is absorbed or there is a general inflation.

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But gas prices are still going up. Inflation is a tax, plain and simple.


That is inaccurate pure and simple. Calling a dog a cat does not make it so.

Quote:
It is also a very deceitful tax.


No, it is deceitful to call everything a "tax" just because you dislike it.

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A tax that cannot be seen by the majority populous is both very effective and very unfair.


Probably because they understan what a tax really is and inflation does not come close to meeting that crtiteria.

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If everyone knew that the Fed can create money for the government out of thin air, and that the government relies very heavily upon this practice, it would create a revolution.
Let's just look at GM. Too much borrowing, too much spending, bad management, etc, got them bailed out. And now, governmental intervention on the part of Obama and the Chevy Volt (which by the way is a complete joke), and other things which I haven't researched very well, are causing GM to go under again. Ultimately this is the government's fault, as they are the biggest shareholder of GM. And honestly, who buys chevy? They only last for 150k miles and are junk! GMC gas guzzlers are much better. The Cadillac line is also very lovely and immortal (hopefully). But off track.


A lot of misinformation, but the lack of research does show.

Quote:
How about the postal service? The government raided it too much and now they have too cut back "because they aren't making enough money." When what is actually true is that they took too much money from the USPS for it to function.


The Nixon Administration set it up as a quasi-business and then retained control over the main guidelines. Thus, even though they can show a profit they are required to pre-pay benefits, unlike any other "business" and are restricted as to what areas may be streamlined by Congress.

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