EnviroLink Forum

Friends today my mind is on Israel. In the last 12 years over 12,000 rockets have landed in Israel from Gaza. In the last three days over 492 rockets have been fired with 245 Iron Dome interceptions. That totals 737 rockets fired at Israel in three days. Plus two fired from Egypt. They have taken artillery fire from Syria in the last week. Personally I don’t see how any nation could or should put up with this. Israeli citizens are taught they have 15 seconds to reach shelter once the air raid sirens go off. I think Israel as a people and a nation have shown remarkable restraint that no other nation in this world is expected. Yasher koash.

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Potato chip enthusiast.

I am at a loss. What am I missing here? A friend of the United States. A democracy in the middle east has come under attack. A country where the highest standard of living for Arabs is a fact. What the bloody hell am I missing? The crickets chirping in response to my OP is indeed instructive. No stand up guys around here. No swinging dicks here. Our ally has come under attack and only silence here. My response to terrorism and an attack on our ally is POUND THEM TILL THE RUBBLE BOUNCES!!!!!!

Are we clear?

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Potato chip enthusiast.

Israel is not capable of dealing with the attacks from Gaza? Escalation is desired?

Israel has a blockade in place around Gaza, for which I can understand the need, and has taken on the Arab nations since the war started with their founding. Syria is preoccupied, Egypt is trying to sort itself out, and the rest of the region is walking on egg shells since the Arab Spring. I do not see the need for sabre rattling by the US in this case ... especially after Iraq and with Afghanistan still continuing. If there is a real threat Israel cannot handle I support assistance, but I do not support throwing gasoline on the fire in the interim.

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With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

I think that for a long time the US has been kind of chicken to do anything that would upset the moslems and our oil supply to feed the big gas hogs still made here. They used the politically correct term of "radical" moslems to excuse all the tacit encouragers. The powers that be, didn't want to upset their apple cart of big profits and rigged elections, and miss-information and leftist slant of their owned news sources. The US Jews did have a lot of financial power, lesser, now. It is easy to see how Barry Soetoro, the Indonesian moslem, got to be usurper in chief and all the crooked coverups of Fast and Furious to the Libyan Ambassador's death. The moslem tradition of Taqiyya is especially troubling. They can lie, pretend they are Christian or Jews, go out and drink, et al, as long as it is in furtherance of islam.
The moslems are reproducing, without the inconvenience of women's rights, like rabbits in all places they have emigrated to, and in their home middle east. Arab spring and these attacks are all because they need more territory or resources because of their extreme overpopulation. Anyone who is not moslem is their mortal enemy. See the White Roses thread and links.
As long as the US is such an oil glutton, and isn't doing the right thing environmentally by population reduction and reducing emissions 90% by 2020, the foreign oil will have us by the short hairs, even as our economy goes back into recession before depression from too many people and too much corruption.
Personally, I support Israel and believe they have the right of self defense including any means necessary to prevent more attacks. They are overpopulated, too, if only to provide a better chance of survival against attacks by moslems. The whole area is a time bomb of too many people and not enough resources. I would like to see the ones of the insane cult just disappear, and the rest of the world at sustainable population and practices, but that won't happen easily, if at all.

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

I don't really believe that you really care about the welfare of anyone in the region. If you want an argument for your own amusement other forums are available. where your trollish questions will get a more satisfactory response.

Mr. Spot. The one with the big lip. Your putting words in my mouth about caring for others. I stand against terrorism. I stand for those who stand against terrorism. I care deeply about our ally. Israel. If that's trolling on this board than perhaps this board needs to reevaluate what it stands for. Perhaps you are confused about what you stand for. That's okay I understand the mind of a progressive. How dare you assume what I care for. f##k you and the horse you road in on. Is that a satisfactory response? Or is your brain like a BB in a box car rolling around. Do you get me?

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Potato chip enthusiast.

For the edification of the misguided Mr. Spot. A brief history of terrorism.

1. 1970 to 1975 several Americans were killed and kidnaped in Sudan and Lebanon. The Peoples Front for the Liberation of Palestine carried out a rocket attack on the American Embassy in Beirut.

No reprisals.

2. The Mujahedin-e Khalq killed several US military personal and civilians working in Iran.

3. 1974. The Revolutionary Peoples Struggle carried out bombings against US military
facilities located in Greece.

4. 1979 Iranian students seized 52 American hostages and held them for 444 days.

One failed rescue attempt. On April 24th 1980, a 132 member rescue squad was to insert near Tehran on eight Sea Stallions from the USS Nimitz. Two were forced to return to the Nimitz due to mechanical problems. Six helicopters were enough to carry on but just barely. At a refueling point inside Iran a Sea Stallion pilot was following a flash light to a touch down point. The flash light did not belong to a ground controller. It belonged to a C-130 crewman inspecting his aircraft. The helicopters rotors struck the C-130 and ignited a fuel tank. 5 on the C-130, and three aboard the helicopter were killed.

5. 1983 Hezbollah sent a truck bomb in front of the American Embassy in Beirut that killed 63 and wounded 120.

No reprisals.

6.. 1983 another Hezbollah suicide bomber struck a Marine barracks killing 241, wounding 81.

The Marines were pulled out of Lebanon.

7. 1983 the American Embassy in Kuwait is bombed.

No reprisals.

8. 1983 CIA station chief William Buckley is kidnaped, tortured, and murdered by Hezbollah. Buckley is fourth American to be kidnaped in Beirut. Shortly after most of the agents and assets in the region were “neutralized.”

These kidnapings are what led Reagan to negotiate anti-tank missiles for hostages. (Iran- Contra.) The US sold 1,500 anti-tank missiles to Iran. We got 3 hostages back. These funds were redirected to the Contras in Nicaragua. An audio tape of Buckley screaming during torture was sent to the White House.

9. 1984 the US Embassy in Beirut was car bombed again.

Reagan okayed covert proxy retaliations by Lebanese Intelligence. They missed the Hezbollah target and killed 80 innocent people.

10. 1984 a Kuwaiti airliner is highjacked. Two Americans are murdered. The plane lands in Iran. The highjackers are arrested and then allowed to leave Iran.

Reagan administration offers 250,000 dollars for information. No takers.

11. 1985 Hezbollah highjacked TWA flight 847. They set down in Beirut. One American serviceman (Navy diver Robert Stethem) is murdered. His body tossed out on the tarmac. highjackers (Mohamed Ali Hamadi and Hassan Izz-al-din) demand hundreds of terrorists held by Israel be released.

Israel met the demands. Four highjackers were later captured, and only one stood trial in Germany.

12. 1985 the PLO take control of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro. Four terrorists led by Majed Molqi boarded the ship at Port Said, Egypt. The plan was to take control of the ship at the next port of call. Israel. A ships steward stumbled into their stateroom while the terrorists were cleaning their automatic weapons. Molqi demanded the release of 50 PLO terrorists convicted in Israeli courts. On October 3, 1985 at 3 in the afternoon Molqi shot Leon Klinghoffer ( a wheel chair bound stroke victim) in the chest. Then in the head and threw him overboard. Two days later the Egyptian government announced that the terrorists had surrendered, and that no harm had been done to the passengers. The Egyptians put the four terrorists aboard an Egypt Air 737. Tail number 2843 bound for Tunis, Tunisia. Two F- 14's (Alert Cap) from the USS Saratoga along with an E-2C Hawkeye intercepted the 737 and forced it down at Sigonella, Sicily. The plane was surrounded by two SEAL platoons that were pre-positioned on Cyprus for a sea take down of the Achille Lauro. The SEAL’s were then surrounded by the Italian regular army. Some tense moments ensued. United States Navy SEAL’s discover that not only is Molqi on board but so is Abu Abbas. Abbas is Yasir Arafat right hand and thought to be the master mind of many terrorists plots including this one. When everything was said and done. The four highjackers were convicted in Italian courts. Magied al-Molqi: 30 years. Ibrahim abdel Atif: 20 years. Ahmed al-Hassan 15 years. Abdullah Ali-Hammad: Charges dropped. He was a minor at the time. Abu Abbas was taken off the 737 by the Italian government. Dressed in an Italian air force officers’ flight suit. Put on board a Yugoslav civilian airliner and flown to Belgrade, Yugoslavia. He lived out the rest of his life in Iraq.

The list of nations that helped terrorists. Egypt: aided terrorist by suppling air passage, aircraft, and threatened to defend that aircraft on the ground as Egyptian territory on the ground at Sicily. Egypt also put several 777 special forces commandos on board that aircraft. Italy: aided in the escape of a known terrorist that the United States wanted in connection in the murder of a US citizen. Attempted to block runways to allow the escape of Egypt Air 737. The attempt was blocked by US forces. Yugoslavia: for excepting a known fugitive wanted by the United States government, and aiding in his escape.

13. 1985, 5 Americans were among 20 deaths when terrorists attack the airports at Rome and Vienna with small automatic weapons and grenades.

14. 1986 a explodes in a West Berlin disco.

United States with F-111's and Navy aircraft attack military installations in two Libyan cities. One Qaddafi residence is hit killing some family members. F-111 flew out of Great Britain. France and Spain deny US forces access to their airspace.

15. 1986 Abu Nidal murders 3 Americans working at the American University in Beirut.

No US reprisals.

16. 1986 Abu Nidal’s group highjacks Pan Am flight 73 at Karachi Venezuela.

17. 1988 Libyans carry out the bombing of Pan AM flight 103. 270 killed. One convicted bomber has been released with terminal cancer to live out the rest of his days at home.

18. 1989, Alex Boncayao Brigade killed US Army Col. James Rowe in the Philippines.

19. 1990, the Revolutionary Peoples Liberation Party Front killed two US military
contractors and wounded an Air Force officer to protest the build up of US military
in the Gulf.

20. 1990, the Sendero Luminoso attempted to car bomb the US Embassy in Peru.

21. 1992, Revolutionary Peoples Liberation Party Front launched rockets at the US
Consulate in Istanbul, Turkey.

22. January 25, 1993 on Route 123 Virginia a Pakistani national Mir Aimal Kansi at a stop light filled with car containing CIA employees exits his vehicle with an AK-47 and kills two and
wounds three. Kansi leaves the country and four years later is captured near the Pakistan-
Afgan boarder. He is brought back to the USA and convicted. He was executed by lethal
injection 2002.
23. 1993 a truck bomb explodes in the parking garage of the World Trade Center. 6 killed over 1000 injured. The plan was to topple one tower into the other, and envelop the area with sodium cyanide.

6 Muslims convicted and serving long terms. Investigations revealed the first emergence of al Qaida and Osama Bin Laden based in Sudan. No further action is taken.

24. 1993 Iraqi intelligence attempts to assassinate George Bush 41 while visiting Kuwait.

Clinton administration lobbies UN to retaliate. Without UN approval a few cruise missiles are fired into empty buildings in Baghdad.

25. 1994 Americans are killed in Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey, and Lebanon in terrorist operations not directed at the United States.

26. 1995 in Pakistan a van belonging to the US Consulate was hit by gunfire. Killing 2 and wounding 1.

27. 1995 in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, a car bomb exploded outside the residence of the US military personal. 5 were killed.

28. 1996 the Khobar Towers in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia was truck bombed. 19 US servicemen were killed. 240 wounded.

Clinton turned the matter over to the FBI.

29. 1998 the US Embassy in Beirut was attacked with grenades.

30. 1998 the Embassy of Kenya (Nairobi) and Tanzania (Dar es Salaam) were car bombed. 12
Americans were among the 200 killed.

A few more cruise missiles were launched.

31. 1998, an attack by Al-Jihad , an Egyptian group, on the US Embassy in Albania was
thwarted.

32. 1999, while Prince was partying the Army for Liberation of Rwanda killed two US
citizens at a game park on the Congo-Uganda border.

33. 2000, the USS Cole was attacked while refueling in Yemen. 17 United States sailors were
killed. 39 wounded.

34. March 2000, Alex Boncayao Brigade strafed some Shell Oil offices in the Philippines.

35. September 11th. Over 3,000 killed. Thousands wounded.

36. 2002, Wall Street Journal reporter Danny Pearl is kidnaped and murdered on videotaped in Pakistan. His captors decapitated him. His murderers offered Pearl a sedative before and he refused.

One involved is captured by Pakistan officials and turned over to the US.

37. 2002, two Americans are taken hostage in the Philippines. US buckles and pays ransom. On was killed in a rescue attempt, the other hostage was wounded.

38. July 2, 2002, an Egyptian born gunman kills 2 at the Israeli EL AL Airline ticket counter at Los Angles International Airport.

39. August 1st, 2002. Five Americans are killed in a remote control triggered bombing at Hebrew
University, Jerusalem.

40. October 27th, 2002. United States diplomat Larry Foley is shot and killed in Amman, Jordan.

41. December 29th, 2002. Three Americans missionary doctors at a hospital in Yemen. William
Koehn, Martha Myers, and Kathleen Gariety were shot and killed by Muslim extremists.

42. May 11th, 2004. Nick Berg is decapitated on video tape by al Qaida in Iraq.

43. June, 15th, 2004. A Lockheed Martin employee working in Saudi Arabia is kidnaped. His
captors demand the release of all al Qaida prisoners held in Saudi prisons. On June 18th
American Paul M. Johnson Jr. is murdered. Photographs of his decapitation are shown on many websites. Three of his kidnappers are killed by Saudi security forces later that day in a
fire fight in downtown Riyadh. Among them is Abdulaziz al Moqrin. The leader of al Qaida on the Arabian peninsula. Moqrin trained with Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan.

44. June 15th, 2004. Kenneth Scroggs from Laconia New Hampshire was shot and killed the
garage of his Riyadh home. As usual al Qaida claimed responsibility.

45. November 5, 2009. Nidal Malik Hasan an American born Muslim opens fire at Fort Hood, Texas. The Army psychiatrist, rank major, killed 13 and wounded 29.

And according to Mr. Spot I'm trolling on the subject. For standing up against terrorism I am accused of trolling? Mr. Spot really? Since 2009 many other terrorist incidents have happened. Stick your head in the sand along with Mr. Spot. Not me. My head is up and my weapon is cocked. Does that offend you? Mr. Spot. I say again its time we pound them till the rubble bounces. If you can't see that than you are part of the conga line of morons that are celebrating our downfall. I can't help you, and neither can anyone else. You are lost. You are an idiot and you don't even know it.

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Potato chip enthusiast.

Thanks for educating me because I did not know that nasty things happen in the world as we don't have news papers in England. Personally I don't see how blowing up random peoples houses while kids are still sleeping in them solves anything but perhaps that's just me. I suppose all this war and suffering helps bring the rapture closer so it's all a good thing.

Oh, Mr. Spot is a citizen of the UK. So what. That doesn’t exempt you from terrorism. My post was terror against United States targets and interests. The UK has a rich history too. Does the IRA ring a bell. Beginning in 1867 with the Irish Republican Brotherhood. Irish nationalist planted two bombs in the tube in starting in 1883. 1885 the second tube bomb. They tried to shoot Queen Victoria and bomb the House of Commons. Gavrib Princip’s act of terrorism led to the first World War. Caxton Hall? St Ethelburgas? Michael Collins refined terrorism to include selective terrorism, sustained terrorism over time, and targeted police, government officials, soldiers, and judges, and introduced the technique of cells. Munich 1972? How about the Iranian Embassy in 1980. People were killed by terrorists in the UK that day. I did mention Lockerbie, Scotland and what led up to that. I did mention Pan Am flight 103? France and Spain didn’t have the balls to let our Aardvarks fly over their country to take care of business that day. 67 UK citizens killed at the World Trade Center. Anders Breivik planted a bomb and then killed 67 people in Norway.

Your concern about women and children is indeed touching as you conveniently steer a course around taking responsibly to combat the problem. And the United States and Israel spend billions on smart weapons to reduce collateral damage and death. “Blowing up random houses while kids are sleeping” is a cheap, inaccurate debate tactic that is offensive, and coming from a UK citizen you should be ashamed given your history. What is the motto of your Special Air Service? Those who dare. I guess we can just count you out. I feel a profound sense of being sickened by this encounter with you Mr. Spot.

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Potato chip enthusiast.

Don't let Spot1234 get you down Milt. Spot was a good ally at TES, helping against AGW denialists.
It shouldn't get to be a pissing match between an Englishman and a Kiwi.
All the listed attacks against the US were by moslems (purposeful disrespect and misspelling) whose desire is to kill all infidels (non-moslems) and establish a world-wide caliphate.
The only other enemies of the US in my life have been communists, who also killed many innocents and are still very much a threat, even though we made the stupid mistake of trading with them.
The Irish War has lasted a very long time, and I am of Irish, German, and Norwegian stock. That is more than a war between Catholics and Protestants, or for Irish autonomy of their entire island. I have not heard of any IRA attacks recently.
England's biggest threat is its own disarming of its citizens and allowing in inordinate numbers of non-British, especially moslems who will, like with other European countries, merely breed themselves into the majority and take over.
However, they, like the USA, are already 700% overpopulated and heading toward the crash. That is when even worse terror will spread around the world.

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

The reality is that the pathway to reducing aggression of the dispossession of the people of Palestine is economic development.

We saw a dramatic reduction in the Troubles in Ulster when Éire became rich.

Israel seems dedicated to stopping this from happening. They need to wake up to how that is affecting people and the society.

I just was reading that the latest talks about a ceasefire failed to meet Israel's key concession... that Egypt prevent the import of arms. This has always been the key problem... Egypt wants to sell arms to the Palestinians so Israel's only option is to blockade all incoming materials unless they are administered by a peace-loving aid organization. Rebuilding is very expensive when everything needs to be smuggled in along with the new arms. The tunnels used to smuggle across the border are about 50% unusable after the latest round of bombing the tunnels. The anti-Israeli people (who are mostly from other countries) will continue to send bombs with or without the Palestinians. The only way to bring peace is for Egypt to want it... but it is very profitable.