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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:03 am 
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deep woods wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
I beloeive that is called an assumption since there is nothing invovled but a belief. The fact is that three of the last fireatms I have purchased were from individuals with no background check performed. Only one of those people knew me in any way. That is anaecdotal information, but it indicates the statisics of private sale weapons beinb used in a crime have a personal experience support.


My comment is based on personal experience and anecdotal information as well.


You missed the part about the anecdotal information supporting the known statistics in my case.

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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Why is it irrelevant to the discussion if the side you support creates fake supply and demand issues through lies and deception to increase the cost to consumers?


You have proposed a ban on certain magazines. Others on your side have called for bans on handguns, bans on "assault" rifles (speaking of lies and deception!), and bans on all firearms. This threat is real, and naturally has an effect on prices, just as the threat of war in the Middle East affects oil prices.


Yes, but when President Obama took office the gun industry made the claim and did it again when he was elected for the second term without anything to support the claim other then the need to create the concern which drove up prices.

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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Yes, tobacco is subject to extensive "sin taxation" due to the impact of health costs relating to ist use, but that is not what is being discussed. I could forsee that approach being used at some point if the health impact of firearms is not lessened, which preventing acquistion by some and adequate training for all would be expaected to do.


This approach has been proposed by your side, and will be the natural evolution of "reasonable" gun control laws, in my opinion.


In my opinion, if nothing is done to provide some reasonable gun controls the eventual outcome will be an outright ban similar to that seen in Australia after one of the mass shootings becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back.

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Wayne Stollings wrote:
No new laws would be needed? There is no law requiring a background check for private transfer now. Thus, there is no illegal sale by an individual now unless they can be proven to have been in the business, which is nearly impossilbe. Do you know how many guns you can sell before you are considered in the business? The law does not state any level. Thus the first defense is disbelief they were doing anything illegal and the ability to convict goes through the floor.


Background checks for all sales of handguns are required in the state that I live in. And in many, if not most others.


But not long guns, which we have seen are used in mass shootings if not in the more regular crimes. A long gun can also be converted into a more concealable size.

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Irregardless, breaking one law does not make someone guilty of a second crime unless the first crime was committed to facilitate the second.


It does when the law specifies it. The application of murder charges for everyone involved in the commission of a crime where someone dies for example.

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Please check the legal definition of conspiracy.


The law defines the terms used as part of the law, which is why the law has the terms within it defined in a portion of the legislation. Thus, the law would have such a definition included.

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Wayne Stollings wrote:
The knowledge level is not required if the laws specifies the criteria. Just like the legal criteria stating that anyone killed in the execution of a felony is automatically classified as first degree murder ... even if there was no intent to harm anyone by the criminals involved. It also applies to every person involved with the crime even if they were not present at the time. The get away driver for example is charged the same as anyone else involved even if all they were doing is driving. It is the big stick to help people make a better choice and not do someyhing illegal.

You are believing too much of the gun lobby propaganda.


Is the guy who supplied the getaway car charged? He is not, unless it can be proved that he knowingly provided it for the purpose of aiding in the crime.


He would be if the law specifically stated that was the case.

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If I sell a car to someone who drinks alcohol, should I be charged if they have an accident with it?


If there is a law that states you cannot sell a car to someone who drinks. You are missing the writing of the specific legislation aspect.

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Again, check the legal definition of conspiracy. Making people strictly responsible for crimes committed by others would be a dangerous precedent to set.


It is already set. If you assist in a crime where someone dies you are legally guilty of murder whether you hurt anyone or intended to hurt anyone. The actions you undertake have the known potential to cause death when you commit a crime, thus you are guilty. If you illegally transfer a firearm to someone there is also the known potential to facilitate another crime in the commission of that crime. Thus, the precedent for making such a person a conspirator in that crime. The crimes are not limited to murder, but that would be the more serious offense.

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I'm not sure where the propaganda comment came from.


The "if they only enforced the laws on the books" is a common NRA propaganda slogan since they also work so hard to make the enforcement of the laws so difficult.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:17 pm 
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http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safet ... s-map.html

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:28 pm 
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I got news that a Soros company has been buying arms manufacturers, and is shutting them down. Marlin Arms is the last one.
Reasonable gun control is hitting the target. The 80 million households with guns will not tolerate confiscation and well taken care of guns last a very long time. Black powder ones, too.
Then how about all the swords, and knives, numerous poisons, kitchen utensils, 2x4s, hammers, axes, rakes and shovels, other sticks and branches, rocks and fists, teeth and feet, knees and elbows, too?
What does it matter in a world heading toward thermal maximum? A gun could give your family another year or so to live, with rioting cannibals all over. Eat or be eaten, then fry. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Well, here we are again.
Another school shooting; more calls to fix this or that.
Mewonders: will there be action this time or will everyone just talk and talk....till the next mass shooting restarts the whole process.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Iowanic wrote:
Well, here we are again.
Another school shooting; more calls to fix this or that.
Mewonders: will there be action this time or will everyone just talk and talk....till the next mass shooting restarts the whole process.


I have made some significant changes to my view on firearms after this last shooting and some of the things I have read and seen.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:07 pm 
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I have been a gun owner for over half a century, I was a member of the NRA, I had many letters to the editor supporting gun rights over the years, I was presented to some of the NRA at a couple of gun shows as someone whose writing could be used in a wider area, but I left the NRA after they started going against reasonable gun legislation and the responses to the school shootings especially have troubled me.

There is a young lady whom I have known since she was born. Her mom works for ma and wanted to breast feed her daughter. As a result we set up a nursery at work and I saw her every work day. As she grew older we spent time together as I have no grandchildren and she was a close as I may ever get. She asked questions as all children do and being my nature I gave her answers and explained them when I knew. When I didn't know off hand we researched the answer until we were happy with it. Her mom says this is why she has skipped two grades, because she was really in school years before she started. I also taught her to shoot safely and accurately. I taught her about Tannerite and CO2 bombs, which nearly got me called into a parent teacher conference to explain my influence when she commented that some animal pests could be eliminated by merely shooting them with a .22, which would have been my response too.

This young lady gave her first public speaking assignment yesterday and did an excellent job of it too. The issue she researched was school shootings and was decided well before the last incident. I got to read her presentation before she came by work after school. To say that I was moved would be an understatement. It was too close to home for me and when we talked about it I asked if she was concerned over the shootings. She said that she was not because she knew that I was just a few minutes away and that I would kill anyone threatening her. I would do that in a heartbeat too, but I had to tell her that even that close I could not be sure that I would be able to get there quickly although I would be there. That is when I realized just how vulnerable she really was, not just at school but driving down the road and at the mall, just like my children and family was.

I realized that the only way I can protect children is to work to reduce access to guns even more than I have. I am no longer going to limit myself to control of access but will actively support the banning as well. Maybe an increasing threat of banning will move the gun lobby to go to more reasonable based options, but if not I know that banning will be the ultimate end. Hundreds of people are affected by each mass shooting and eventually there will be enough to force a change if the present generation does not do its part. Personally, I have decided to stop my purchase plans for the future and store my current "inventory" until there is a change. I will not try to profit from them and they will remain distributed in my will unless there is some action prior.

The fact that someone like myself has to make such a decision such as this should be something that concerns the gun lobby, especially since Remington is going bankrupt and others are not is very good shape after they lost their "the government is going to take your guns" marketing ploy, but they are blindly following their guns or nothing approach.

I signed my first petition this morning and sent my donation. They should be thanking the gun lobby and the guns or nothing supporters for getting them that donation.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:12 pm 
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https://twitter.com/Julia_SCI/status/96 ... 52/photo/1

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:15 pm 
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https://twitter.com/ExumAM/status/964614381375053830

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