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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:24 pm 
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Archer wrote:
You know, I think that was the last pure thing we still had....until that dang movie. :?


Haven't seen either of those movies so it's still pure to me. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:49 am 
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Grace wrote:
I agree. We've got Bushy to blame. I think by the time we pull out of there, we'll have alienated every Iraqi citizen against the U.S.


I doubt it. From Nov. 03- May 04 I spent working with civilian contractors in Iraq,training them in Firefighting and Emergency medical procedures. I made some very good friends there and still get weekely emails from some of the guys I worked with over there. They are very Pro American. They love us. In fact a few were in tears when we got ready to come home and made us promise that we'd meet them again at some other time. What the media shows of alot of the situation in Iraq isn't what is going on.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:27 am 
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Mr. Venom wrote:
Grace wrote:
I agree. We've got Bushy to blame. I think by the time we pull out of there, we'll have alienated every Iraqi citizen against the U.S.


I doubt it. From Nov. 03- May 04 I spent working with civilian contractors in Iraq,training them in Firefighting and Emergency medical procedures. I made some very good friends there and still get weekely emails from some of the guys I worked with over there. They are very Pro American. They love us. In fact a few were in tears when we got ready to come home and made us promise that we'd meet them again at some other time. What the media shows of alot of the situation in Iraq isn't what is going on.


Oh my God you were in Iraq? Working with contractors? Wasn't this around the time of all the beheadings (or was it before)? If during the same time, weren't you afraid you'd be kidnapped & slaughtered like a lamb? I read a story about a houseful of civilian contractors and how they prepared themselves for beheadings. They used to watch the gruesome video tapes and determined it took an average of 17 or 21 seconds to die (or lose consciousness) etc. I can't imagine anyone volunteering to work in hell.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:37 am 
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I can't imagine anyone volunteering to work in hell.


Sometimes you have to question what you see on TV, and ask if it is really as bad as they say. And sometimes you find that hell is closer then you think. These numbers are for 2004-2005.

From the New York Sun.

VIOLENT DEATHS PER 100,000 POPULATION

COLOMBIA-- 61.7
NEW ORLEANS--53.1---PRE-KATRINA
SOUTH AFRICA--49.6
WASHINGTON D.C.--45.9
BALTIMORE--37.7
ATLANTA--34.9
JAMAICA--32.4
VENEZUELA--31.6
IRAQ--25.71

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:46 am 
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hunter88 wrote:
Quote:
I can't imagine anyone volunteering to work in hell.


Sometimes you have to question what you see on TV, and ask if it is really as bad as they say. And sometimes you find that hell is closer then you think. These numbers are for 2004-2005.

From the New York Sun.

VIOLENT DEATHS PER 100,000 POPULATION

COLOMBIA-- 61.7
NEW ORLEANS--53.1---PRE-KATRINA
SOUTH AFRICA--49.6
WASHINGTON D.C.--45.9
BALTIMORE--37.7
ATLANTA--34.9
JAMAICA--32.4
VENEZUELA--31.6
IRAQ--25.71


Exactly.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:12 am 
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Grace wrote:
I can't imagine anyone volunteering to work in hell.

Why not? What you consider hell may just look like a place that needs help to someone else.

hunter88 wrote:
Sometimes you have to question what you see on TV, and ask if it is really as bad as they say. And sometimes you find that hell is closer then you think. These numbers are for 2004-2005.

From the New York Sun.

VIOLENT DEATHS PER 100,000 POPULATION

COLOMBIA-- 61.7
NEW ORLEANS--53.1---PRE-KATRINA
SOUTH AFRICA--49.6
WASHINGTON D.C.--45.9
BALTIMORE--37.7
ATLANTA--34.9
JAMAICA--32.4
VENEZUELA--31.6
IRAQ--25.71


Impressive numbers. I always knew D.C. was a dangerous place, but I didn't know it was that bad. Hrmm.. reminds me of the numbers in San Diego, my in-laws thought I lived in a really bad place (the Ghetto as the referred to it) but they had more crimes and death in their neck of the woods than we had in mine. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:19 am 
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Quote:
Exactly.


Like it or not, today's news media is slanted. There can be no question about that. What this means is a person has to do some homework if they really want to find the truth. You can't just sit down and watch the world news on TV and know what's happening. The only thing you'll know is what they want you to know.

Here's a question. Do you want to get your news from a media outlet that tells you how many thousands are being killed in Iraq, yet doesn't put it in perspective and tell you the deaths per 100,000 are almost twice as high in Washington DC? It's sad to say but todays news media has an agenda.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:23 am 
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hunter88 wrote:
Quote:
Exactly.


Like it or not, today's news media is slanted. There can be no question about that. What this means is a person has to do some homework if they really want to find the truth. You can't just sit down and watch the world news on TV and know what's happening. The only thing you'll know is what they want you to know.

Here's a question. Do you want to get your news from a media outlet that tells you how many thousands are being killed in Iraq, yet doesn't put it in perspective and tell you the deaths per 100,000 are almost twice as high in Washington DC? It's sad to say but todays news media has an agenda.


Yep. I don't pay much attention to them.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:34 am 
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hunter88 wrote:
Like it or not, today's news media is slanted. There can be no question about that. What this means is a person has to do some homework if they really want to find the truth. You can't just sit down and watch the world news on TV and know what's happening. The only thing you'll know is what they want you to know.

Here's a question. Do you want to get your news from a media outlet that tells you how many thousands are being killed in Iraq, yet doesn't put it in perspective and tell you the deaths per 100,000 are almost twice as high in Washington DC? It's sad to say but todays news media has an agenda.


You mean there are still people who get their news from tv news?! :shock:

I can't stand watching tv news.. except on weekends when James Brown does the weather. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:20 am 
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hunter88 wrote:
Quote:
I can't imagine anyone volunteering to work in hell.


Sometimes you have to question what you see on TV, and ask if it is really as bad as they say. And sometimes you find that hell is closer then you think. These numbers are for 2004-2005.

From the New York Sun.

VIOLENT DEATHS PER 100,000 POPULATION

COLOMBIA-- 61.7
NEW ORLEANS--53.1---PRE-KATRINA
SOUTH AFRICA--49.6
WASHINGTON D.C.--45.9
BALTIMORE--37.7
ATLANTA--34.9
JAMAICA--32.4
VENEZUELA--31.6
IRAQ--25.71

So I know we all love to be armchair quarterbacks, but these statistics are completely meaningless. To take an entire country like Iraq and compare it to a city in the US is misleading. What are the violent deaths per 100,000 population in the Sunni Triangle, or in specific cities or other regions in Iraq where it literally is hell on earth right now.

Through my work, I have contact with both Army soldiers and Marines that are and have been in Iraq. If you actually talk to soldiers on the ground in Iraq you will find that there are certain areas of the country that are extremely violent and out of control. There are many other areas where there is not as much violence. The entire country is lacking in infrastructure and the spiraling economic condition of almost everyone there is probably the biggest threat to the emergence of the country as a peaceful sovereign state.

Bottom line, throwing around stats that attempt to compare apples to oranges is misleading and disingenuous. Just because Fox News says it is true doesn't mean it is (I've seen that violent death stat on Fox News more than once).

-josh


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:15 am 
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Origam
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Why not? What you consider hell may just look like a place that needs help to someone else.


Needs help? What I got from almost every article or CNN, NBC, ABC news report about American civilians going to Iraq to work was about MONEY, not helping. Sure there are exceptions to that, but it was all about money being the primary motivator, otherwise we'd be talking about volunteers.

Let me ask you, did you see any of the beheading videos?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:27 am 
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Grace wrote:
Needs help? What I got from almost every article or CNN, NBC, ABC news report about American civilians going to Iraq to work was about MONEY, not helping. Sure there are exceptions to that, but it was all about money being the primary motivator, otherwise we'd be talking about volunteers.

Let me ask you, did you see any of the beheading videos?


What's wrong with them getting paid? Just because they are getting paid doesn't mean they don't see a place in need of help as opposed to the hell you see. I'm sure there are quite a few people who wouldn't go over there no matter what the pay.

Nope. I didn't see any of them, I can't say thats my cup of tea. I've seen enough death and some fairly gruesome deaths in my time, I don't need to go searching for it on the internet.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:31 am 
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Origam wrote:
Grace wrote:
Needs help? What I got from almost every article or CNN, NBC, ABC news report about American civilians going to Iraq to work was about MONEY, not helping. Sure there are exceptions to that, but it was all about money being the primary motivator, otherwise we'd be talking about volunteers.

Let me ask you, did you see any of the beheading videos?


What's wrong with them getting paid? Just because they are getting paid doesn't mean they don't see a place in need of help as opposed to the hell you see. I'm sure there are quite a few people who wouldn't go over there no matter what the pay.

Nope. I didn't see any of them, I can't say thats my cup of tea. I've seen enough death and some fairly gruesome deaths in my time, I don't need to go searching for it on the internet.




There's nothing wrong with pay. However, if you re-read your post where you asked what's wrong with helping someone and to one it may not seem like a living hell, I responded with the pay card. And no, I don't think helping is the primary motivator for the contractor sector. Nope.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:32 am 
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High pay -- and high risks -- for contractors in Iraq

Friday, April 2, 2004 Posted: 10:30 AM EST (1530 GMT)
CNN) -- Blackwater Security Consulting -- whose four employees were viciously killed and their corpses mutilated by a mob in Fallujah, Iraq -- is one of a growing number of private security contractors that are hiring veterans for jobs previously assigned to the military

personnel working for private companies and non-government organizations in Iraq. "They provide very focused security for detailing out how a protectee's day occurs -- from the beginning of the morning until they tuck that person back into bed at night," said CNN national security analyst Ken Robinson, "whether that be an NGO trying to conduct operations trying to provide food or water or support to the population."
The four men killed Wednesday were providing security for a convoy delivering U.S. government food.

………Contractors a favorite target
Experts say that as coalition forces have turned over security patrols to the Iraqi police, the attacks that used to target the military are now directed at civilian contractors and their private security forces.

"There are something like 150 attacks per day of one kind or another and most of them are intercepted," said Rick Bardon of the Center for Strategic & International Studies. "So there's been some success in reducing the impact of these attacks, but that's a lot of action that we're involved in all over the country."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/ ... ontractor/


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:34 am 
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From same link:

"It pays quite well. There's a lot of contracts that pay anywhere from $350 a day to $1,500 a day," said Chris Boyd of Kroll-Crucible Security


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