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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:34 am 
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Contractor partial death list


http://icasualties.org/oif/Civ.aspx


Ori, open this link!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:48 am 
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hunter88
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Sometimes you have to question what you see on TV, and ask if it is really as bad as they say. And sometimes you find that hell is closer then you think. These numbers are for 2004-2005.


True. But in the case of the Iraqi war, I believe what we're seeing on the news doesn't come within a million miles of the truth. Are they showing the dead and blown apart women and children? A bomb going off with flying body parts through the air? How about our soldiers with their faces blown off? How about all the beheadings and executions? How about all the grief, tears, fear from the civilians? You see a tiny fraction of the later. The rest, you don't see. You hear a bomb went off. Everyday another car bomb. Another 25 people die. Just another day in bloody hell.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:50 am 
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Grace wrote:
Contractor partial death list


http://icasualties.org/oif/Civ.aspx


Ori, open this link!


Not until you tell me what exactly is in it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:53 am 
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Grace wrote:
True. But in the case of the Iraqi war, I believe what we're seeing on the news doesn't come within a million miles of the truth. Are they showing the dead and blown apart women and children? A bomb going off with flying body parts through the air? How about our soldiers with their faces blown off? How about all the beheadings and executions? How about all the grief, tears, fear from the civilians? You see a tiny fraction of the later. The rest, you don't see. You hear a bomb went off. Everyday another car bomb. Another 25 people die. Just another day in bloody hell.


Jesus. Most people are pretty aware of what is going on over there without the need for graphic visuals.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:54 am 
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Origam wrote:
Grace wrote:
True. But in the case of the Iraqi war, I believe what we're seeing on the news doesn't come within a million miles of the truth. Are they showing the dead and blown apart women and children? A bomb going off with flying body parts through the air? How about our soldiers with their faces blown off? How about all the beheadings and executions? How about all the grief, tears, fear from the civilians? You see a tiny fraction of the later. The rest, you don't see. You hear a bomb went off. Everyday another car bomb. Another 25 people die. Just another day in bloody hell.


Jesus. Most people are pretty aware of what is going on over there without the need for graphic visuals.


I was responding directly to hunter88's post about questioning whether Iraq is as bad as they say (going by what you see on TV).


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:55 am 
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Origam wrote:
Grace wrote:
Contractor partial death list


http://icasualties.org/oif/Civ.aspx


Ori, open this link!


Not until you tell me what exactly is in it.



It is a long (and partial) list of names (contractors), their occupations, and how they died (beheadings, shot, car bomb, etc.)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:59 am 
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Grace wrote:
It is a long (and partial) list of names (contractors), their occupations, and how they died (beheadings, shot, car bomb, etc.)


Does it change the fact that there are a lot of people jumping at the chance to go over there for work?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:16 pm 
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Origam wrote:
Grace wrote:
It is a long (and partial) list of names (contractors), their occupations, and how they died (beheadings, shot, car bomb, etc.)


Does it change the fact that there are a lot of people jumping at the chance to go over there for work?

I would venture an educated guess (based on my interaction with contractors who have and are there) that 98% are motivated to do it (ie: "jumping at the chance") because of the incredible money to be made. Nothing wrong with that, but please don't be naiive and think that most are doing it "just to help".

-josh


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:20 pm 
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josh knauer wrote:
I would venture an educated guess (based on my interaction with contractors who have and are there) that 98% are motivated to do it (ie: "jumping at the chance") because of the incredible money to be made. Nothing wrong with that, but please don't be naiive and think that most are doing it "just to help".

-josh


Err.. do they help when they get over there? Do they volunteer to go or are they forced to go by the companies they work for? Money is a huge factor in why they go, but that doesn't mean they don't see a place in need of help and not the hell that Grace sees.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:28 pm 
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Origam wrote:
josh knauer wrote:
I would venture an educated guess (based on my interaction with contractors who have and are there) that 98% are motivated to do it (ie: "jumping at the chance") because of the incredible money to be made. Nothing wrong with that, but please don't be naiive and think that most are doing it "just to help".

-josh


Err.. do they help when they get over there? Do they volunteer to go or are they forced to go by the companies they work for? Money is a huge factor in why they go, but that doesn't mean they don't see a place in need of help and not the hell that Grace sees.


You're very naive. And stubborn. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:32 pm 
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Grace wrote:
You're very naive.

My bad.. I forget everyone has to see a bloody hellish place instead of a place that needs help (volunteer, paid, whatever).

Grace wrote:
And stubborn. :roll:

It's a family trait, although I've been told I've perfected it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:33 pm 
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According to people working and living in the area, around 15 police cars pulled up to the area and uniformed men began pulling civilians off the streets and from cars, throwing bags over their heads and herding them into the cars. Anyone who tried to object was either beaten or pulled into a car. The total number of people taken away is estimated to be around 50.

This has been happening all over Iraq- mysterious men from the Ministry of Interior rounding up civilians and taking them away. It just hasn’t happened with this many people at once. The disturbing thing is that the Iraqi Ministry of Interior has denied that it had anything to do with this latest mass detention (which is the new trend with them- why get tangled up with human rights organizations about mass detentions, torture and assassinations- just deny it happened!). That isn’t a good sign- it means these people will probably be discovered dead in a matter of days. We pray they’ll be returned alive…

Another piece of particularly bad news came later during the day. Several students riding a bus to school were assassinated in Dora area. No one knows why- it isn’t clear. Were they Sunni? Were they Shia? Most likely they were a mix… Heading off for their end-of-year examination...- Now they’ll never come home.

There’s an ethnic cleansing in progress and it’s impossible to deny. People are being killed according to their ID card. Extremists on both sides are making life impossible. ...At least a car bomb is indiscriminate. It doesn’t seek you out because you’re Sunni or Shia.

Another piece of particularly bad news came later during the day. Several students riding a bus to school were assassinated in Dora area. No one knows why- it isn’t clear. Were they Sunni? Were they Shia? Most likely they were a mix…

There’s an ethnic cleansing in progress and it’s impossible to deny. People are being killed according to their ID card. Extremists on both sides are making life impossible. Some of them work for ‘Zarqawi’, and the others work for the Iraqi Ministry of Interior. We hear about Shia being killed in the ‘Sunni triangle’ and corpses of Sunnis named ‘Omar’ (a Sunni name) arriving by the dozen at the Baghdad morgue. I never thought I’d actually miss the car bombs. At least a car bomb is indiscriminate. It doesn’t seek you out because you’re Sunni or Shia.

Where does one go to avoid the death and destruction? Are the Americans happy with this progress? Does Bush still insist we’re progressing?


http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:34 pm 
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Origam
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My bad.. I forget everyone has to see a bloody hellish place instead of a place that needs help (volunteer, paid, whatever).


I see both, instead of just one.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm 
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Grace wrote:
Origam
Quote:
My bad.. I forget everyone has to see a bloody hellish place instead of a place that needs help (volunteer, paid, whatever).


I see both, instead of just one.


Does that mean you're half naive? :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:43 pm 
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Origam wrote:
Grace wrote:
Origam
Quote:
My bad.. I forget everyone has to see a bloody hellish place instead of a place that needs help (volunteer, paid, whatever).


I see both, instead of just one.


Does that mean you're half naive? :shock:


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