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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:37 am 
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Stutzman implies he's giving it away but he's actually selling it. That's not the crux of the story though.

Amish Farmer Says Milk Law Opposes Beliefs

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By JOE MILICIA Associated Press Writer

June 28,2006 | MOUNT HOPE, Ohio -- Arlie Stutzman was busted in a rare sting when an undercover agent bought raw milk from the Amish dairy farmer in an unlabeled container.

Now, Stutzman is fighting the law that forbids the sale of raw milk, saying he believes it violates his religious beliefs because it prohibits him from sharing the milk he produces with others.

"While I can and I have food, I'll share it," said Stutzman, who is due in Holmes County Common Pleas Court on Friday to tell a judge his views. "Do unto others what you would have others do unto you."

http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/archive.ht ... 86U00.html

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:26 am 
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Why not let him sell his milk? People know what they are buying. It's too bad everyone is sue happy these days, or we might be allowed certain freedoms like that. And it sounds like that undercover agent needs to find something better to do. Is busting some old man for selling milk really that important?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:39 pm 
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Actually, most people do not understand the dangers of raw milk, including the farmers themselves. As long as you never have a problem you are never going to know, but the real problem comes from learning by experience.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:10 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Actually, most people do not understand the dangers of raw milk, including the farmers themselves. As long as you never have a problem you are never going to know, but the real problem comes from learning by experience.


Did people back in the day do anything to their milk, or did they just drink it straight from the cow?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:15 pm 
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Archer wrote:
Did people back in the day do anything to their milk, or did they just drink it straight from the cow?


I'll have that black and white cow, two straws please! :D :lol:

Did people back in the day know about the dangers that raw milk can present?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:19 pm 
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http://www.wisc.edu/foodsafety/wffoodfa ... ec2003.htm

Dangers of Raw Milk Still Linger

Recent outbreaks of Salmonella Typhimurium associated with the consumption of raw, unpasteurized milk in four states (Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and Tennessee) has prompted renewed concern from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). Each year in the United States, foodborne disease causes an estimated 76 million illnesses. Of these, an estimated 1.4 million are caused by Salmonella, resulting in approximately 16,000 hospitalizations and 580 deaths. Raw bulk tank milk can contain one or more species of pathogenic bacteria, including Salmonella spp..During 1972--2000, a total of 58 raw milk--associated outbreaks were reported to CDC, of which 17 (29%) were caused by Salmonella spp. One outbreak occurred in Wisconsin in 2001, associated with Campylobacter jejuni. Twenty-seven states still allow the sale of raw milk, and organizations continue their efforts to allow marketing and sale of raw milk to the public directly from the farm, making consumer education about the hazards of raw milk especially important.

The focus of the outbreak investigation was a dairy in Ohio consisted of a working dairy farm, restaurant, snack bar, and petting zoo with goats, cows, calves, lambs, and pigs. In 2002, the dairy was the only place in Ohio that sold raw milk in jugs and served raw milk and milk shakes made with raw milk legally to customers. A total of 62 persons became ill, over a wide age range (1--69 years).

Despite the known association of raw milk with disease-causing organisms, some consumers believe that raw milk is of better quality than pasteurized milk. In states such as Wisconsin, producers circumvent regulations and provide raw milk to consumers by establishing cow-leasing programs in which farmers keep and milk cows owned by individuals. If you have clients wishing to read more on this topic, consult the fact sheet Why Pasteurize? The Dangers of Consuming Raw Milk archived online at Wisconsin FIRST: http://web.archive.org/web/200410181413 ... wmilk1.pdf
Or, check out the following resources available through Steenbock Library:

Headrick ML, Korangy S, Bean NH, et al. The epidemiology of raw milk-associated foodborne disease outbreaks reported in the United States, 1973 through 1992. Am J Public Health 1998;88:1219--21.
Mead PS, Slutsker L, Dietz V, et al. Food-related illness and death in the United States. Emerg Infect Dis 1999;5:607--25.
Jayarao BM, Wang L. A study on the prevalence of gram-negative bacteria in bulk tank milk. J Dairy Sci 1999;82:2620--4.
Jayarao BM, Henning DR. Prevalence of foodborne pathogens in bulk tank milk. J Dairy Sci 2001;84:2157--62.
Hegarty H, O'Sullivan MB, Buckley J, Foley-Nolan C. Continued raw milk
consumption on farms: why? Commun Dis Public Health 2002;5:151--6.
A full report can be found online:

http://web.archive.org/web/200410181413 ... 5226a3.htm

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:51 pm 
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Archer wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Actually, most people do not understand the dangers of raw milk, including the farmers themselves. As long as you never have a problem you are never going to know, but the real problem comes from learning by experience.


Did people back in the day do anything to their milk, or did they just drink it straight from the cow?


I was just curious. I don't guess it matters.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:06 pm 
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Archer wrote:
Archer wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Actually, most people do not understand the dangers of raw milk, including the farmers themselves. As long as you never have a problem you are never going to know, but the real problem comes from learning by experience.


Did people back in the day do anything to their milk, or did they just drink it straight from the cow?


I was just curious. I don't guess it matters.


Sorry, I missed this one. They did not do anything for a long time, but once the Pasteurization process was discovered it became very popular. Milk is the perfect breeding ground for all kinds of problematic bacteria and viruses. A liquid filled with food for them to grow, which is why it is also a popular medium for some types of cell cultures.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:03 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
Archer wrote:
Archer wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Actually, most people do not understand the dangers of raw milk, including the farmers themselves. As long as you never have a problem you are never going to know, but the real problem comes from learning by experience.


Did people back in the day do anything to their milk, or did they just drink it straight from the cow?


I was just curious. I don't guess it matters.


Sorry, I missed this one. They did not do anything for a long time, but once the Pasteurization process was discovered it became very popular. Milk is the perfect breeding ground for all kinds of problematic bacteria and viruses. A liquid filled with food for them to grow, which is why it is also a popular medium for some types of cell cultures.


Thanks.

I wonder how many cases they had back then. Of course, it probably didn't sit around long at all. Probably didn't have long enough to grow much.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:29 pm 
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Archer wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Archer wrote:
Archer wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Actually, most people do not understand the dangers of raw milk, including the farmers themselves. As long as you never have a problem you are never going to know, but the real problem comes from learning by experience.


Did people back in the day do anything to their milk, or did they just drink it straight from the cow?


I was just curious. I don't guess it matters.


Sorry, I missed this one. They did not do anything for a long time, but once the Pasteurization process was discovered it became very popular. Milk is the perfect breeding ground for all kinds of problematic bacteria and viruses. A liquid filled with food for them to grow, which is why it is also a popular medium for some types of cell cultures.


Thanks.

I wonder how many cases they had back then. Of course, it probably didn't sit around long at all. Probably didn't have long enough to grow much.


I believe there were quite a few cases of problems with food, but there was so much exposure it was hard to nail down. The probability of it contributing to the infant mortality rate is pretty good from what I remember on Pasteurization from the college ..it was the "current events course" .. :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:32 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
it was the "current events course" .. :lol: :lol:


:lol: Too funny.. and you owe me a cup of coffee now! :x

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:12 am 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
...it was the "current events course" .. :lol: :lol:


Hah! :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:47 pm 
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I don't know too many farmers that pasteurize their milk. Just fill the jug and take it in the house.
We tried it for a bit but it was deemed a pain in the ass and the pasteurizer was packed away.

There should be no law against selling raw milk. An informed consumer will know the risks and should be checking the facility they are buying from.
Some farms I wouldn't let my cats drink their milk just because of their housekeeping. And cleanliness is the problem with the aforementioned sicknesses.

We were always very conscious of cleanliness. Proper washdown procedures followed, milkers scrubbed after every milking, water temp tested often to ensure proper chemical action.

Give me a couple years and I'll let you try some good fresh raw milk.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:17 am 
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sammyd wrote:
I don't know too many farmers that pasteurize their milk. Just fill the jug and take it in the house.
We tried it for a bit but it was deemed a pain in the ass and the pasteurizer was packed away.

There should be no law against selling raw milk. An informed consumer will know the risks and should be checking the facility they are buying from.


The laws would be designed to protect those consumers who are not informed enough to be able to determine the risks or the condition of the facility.

Quote:
Some farms I wouldn't let my cats drink their milk just because of their housekeeping. And cleanliness is the problem with the aforementioned sicknesses.


How would one know the level of cleanliness if the milk is not purchased directly at the farm? There is, I believe, a general belief that buying that milk would be better than buying it from a store due to the increased freshness, but not understand the potential risk if it was not also pasteurized. It is similar to the health department requirements for selling food. Most private kitchens will not be able to pass such an inspection, but there are much fewer instances of group poisonings in private kitchens ... mainly because there are not generally large groups fed on a regular basis.

We were always very conscious of cleanliness. Proper washdown procedures followed, milkers scrubbed after every milking, water temp tested often to ensure proper chemical action.

Give me a couple years and I'll let you try some good fresh raw milk.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:27 am 
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If you're selling raw milk chances are you're doing it right on the farm not out of a store because it is raw milk. Or maybe a small store on the farm with other products you've raised. Raw milk must be picked up from the farm at the most every other day because it doesn't keep well even when held at the 36 or so degrees that is required, so jugging it up and sending it to the store to sit on the shelf a day or two would be inviting trouble. I notice that the article you posted also says that groups are pushing to get it allowed to be sold directly from the farm.

Right now with the laws the way they are you have to get it from the farm where it is made because you have to have some financial interest in the farm to legally get the milk (in WI). I believe the info you had was that folks bought the cow or a portion of it but that was since ruled illegal and the folks had to actually buy a piece of the farm (if my memory serves me correctly)

There should be no law against selling raw milk. But there should be inspections made of the facility producing it and the method of packaging just as any other dairy enterprise.
Maybe the call for raw milk is not enough to justify the expense of extra inspectors so they just outlawed it.

with only 17 out of 1.4 million of the yearly salmonella illnesses caused by raw milk and only 58 total illnesses caused by raw milk I would say that most farms are pretty on the ball with sanitation.

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