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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:26 pm 
WASHINGTON - Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday.

Agents of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service have completed their initial work on the incident last November, but may be asked to probe further as Marine Corps and Navy prosecutors review the evidence and determine whether to recommend criminal charges, according to two Pentagon officials who discussed the matter on condition of anonymity.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14150687/?GT1=8404


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:32 pm 
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Oh goody! More U.S. bashing.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:42 pm 
I am an an anti war protester active in the UK. When I find the same news from other armed forces in Iraq committing war crimes I will post.

Anything to discuss? Do you think countries shouldn't be accountable for war crimes or are you one of them that thinks it is ok because of 9/11?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:44 pm 
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I haven't seen you post anything constructive. You just show up to bash the U.S.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:09 pm 
Archer wrote:
I haven't seen you post anything constructive. You just show up to bash the U.S.


Pot
Kettle
Archer


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:30 pm 
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X-Black wrote:
Archer wrote:
I haven't seen you post anything constructive. You just show up to bash the U.S.


Pot
Kettle
Archer


I'm not black.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:34 pm 
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At the present time it appears there may be a basis for charges. And to show we do back up our words, don't we wish others did the same, we will hold them accountable for their actions.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:34 am 
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hunter88 wrote:
At the present time it appears there may be a basis for charges. And to show we do back up our words, don't we wish others did the same, we will hold them accountable for their actions.

In this instance in certainly does seem that some very deranged individuals in the US Military committed a horrific crime. None of us have the evidence in the case other than what the media reports, but seems like this was more than just some accident happening in the fog of war.

What would be wrong is to assume that the US has any sort of policy for going out of the way to kill women and children. Civilians always get killed in war (which is why many rational people think it sucks). As much as I have always thought the Iraq war was a sham, this one incident does not yet rise to the level of a crime for anyone other than the individuals who directly participated.

Now, if you want to talk war crimes that do seem to go up the chain of command to the very top, then you should be focusing on Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, etc.

As an aside... discussing issues that are against official US policy or expressing opinions that question such policies is not anti-American. It is in fact the most patriotic and American thing you can do. Theoretically, that's why we fight all of these wars (I did say theoretically... it's obviously not why we really do it...). The US Gov't does some stupid things every once in a while and our system only works when we (and others) can criticize those actions and effect change.

-josh


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:38 am 
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Archer wrote:
Oh goody! More U.S. bashing.

Exactly how is it "U.S. bashing" to post a link to an article about a report published by the US Gov't?? Isn't it amazing that we live in a country/society where our own military actually does investigate itself and issues public reports? Further, it is amazing that sometimes these reports even admit to wrongdoing and help effect change!

The US certainly isn't even close to being perfect, but I'm damned impressed when reports like this are publicly released, even when the actions that were investigated were horrific.

-josh


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:52 am 
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josh knauer wrote:
Archer wrote:
Oh goody! More U.S. bashing.

Exactly how is it "U.S. bashing" to post a link to an article about a report published by the US Gov't?? Isn't it amazing that we live in a country/society where our own military actually does investigate itself and issues public reports? Further, it is amazing that sometimes these reports even admit to wrongdoing and help effect change!

The US certainly isn't even close to being perfect, but I'm damned impressed when reports like this are publicly released, even when the actions that were investigated were horrific.

-josh


I have nothing against the report. I realize these things go on, and I don't condone them. But why was it posted? That's what I'm getting at. The poster is well known for his dislike of the U.S. and anything we do. And I'm only speaking of his actions under his current name.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:33 am 
Archer wrote:
josh knauer wrote:
Archer wrote:
Oh goody! More U.S. bashing.

Exactly how is it "U.S. bashing" to post a link to an article about a report published by the US Gov't?? Isn't it amazing that we live in a country/society where our own military actually does investigate itself and issues public reports? Further, it is amazing that sometimes these reports even admit to wrongdoing and help effect change!

The US certainly isn't even close to being perfect, but I'm damned impressed when reports like this are publicly released, even when the actions that were investigated were horrific.

-josh


I have nothing against the report. I realize these things go on, and I don't condone them. But why was it posted? That's what I'm getting at. The poster is well known for his dislike of the U.S. and anything we do. And I'm only speaking of his actions under his current name.


I think you have a complex going on there Mr Archer. Anti war issues are issues I am concerned with, past an present. When Vietnam is mentioned I will comment and to be honest I could have made many more but I suspected that one of the members had taken part in that war so I dropped it.

You can't see past the nose on your face young man, your preconceptions of me because I am an animal rights activist and your fixation on conspiracy theories about me are a bore.

This is an open forum and since this is an issue I wanted to get opinions from an American perspective I posted it. Just because you like to talk about your hunting exploits (I would go as far as to say gloat) in an attempt to hurt others members feeling on this forum doesn't mean to say others use the same tactics as you. Please don't judge others by your own standards.

Now I really would like to know peoples feeling and views on this and if you have nothing to add can you please go away?

Thank you.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:56 am 
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X-Black wrote:
Now I really would like to know peoples feeling and views on this and if you have nothing to add can you please go away?

Thank you.


If I thought for a second you were sincere in that, I would drop it. But I have no doubt that you only posted that to stir things up. It's nothing new.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:47 am 
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Getting things back on topic :D

Even though I am a former US Marine and very pro-military,there is no excuse for what those guys did to unarmed civilians.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:01 pm 
Mr. Venom wrote:
Getting things back on topic :D

Even though I am a former US Marine and very pro-military,there is no excuse for what those guys did to unarmed civilians.


Why do you think it happened though? If the military are too learn by this they will have to know how they turned into murderers.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:01 pm 
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The actions were not as much of a problem for me, given the possibility of the "fog of war" and "paranoia" effects of a guerrilla conflict, as the potential of a cover-up after the fact. Neither is acceptable, but one is a little more understandable especially if you have had any in depth discussions with Viet Nam veterans on the subject.

There were what may now be called atrocities committed in WWII particularly in the Pacific theater, but mainly involving final level of fighting and abuse of corpses in a gallows type humor.

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