EnviroLink Forum

Community • Ecology • Connection
It is currently Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:10 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 66 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:39 pm 
Wayne Stollings wrote:
X-Black wrote:
Quote:

I am an 'idiot' because you cannot provide support for your claims? The application of "innocent until proven guilty" does not apply to being arrested but only the court trial or there would be no arrests.

Which of the other 3 ARRESTED were released?

Why would the police not pick up everyone connected to the people known to be involved with the plot? They are contained until the probability of their innocence or guilt can be determined. If they release a member of the conspiracy they may have trouble arresting them again but if they get a relatively innocent person they can always release them. Do you propose all police have some type of psychic to determine who to arrest or what?


Yes you are an idiot and in our country you are innocent until proved guilty.


In the courts, not in the police station. :wink:

Quote:
If you want to make yourself look like a prick all the time and have me keep pulling links out for you then go find another toy to play with. It's common knowledge that 5 have been released since the beginning of this just because I don't link doesn't mean it hasn't happened.


Just as it is common knowledge there were 9 shots instead of 7 and the prisoners could be held for 3 months instead the 28 days .... :roll:


If you look at the BBC report you will see 8 shot were reported, it's no big deal.

No you are innocent until proved guilty, suspicion is not guilt.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:49 pm 
Some links you might like to read.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/menezes/0,,1691452,00.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 73,00.html


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:25 pm 
Offline
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20562
Location: Southeastern US
X-Black wrote:
hunter88 wrote:
Quote:
No the man from Brazil didn't run from the police nor did he have a large bubble jacket on he was also shot 9 times in the head after he was "arrested" and restrained.


So the BBC doen't know what it's talking about?

Quote:
On Friday morning, Mr Menezes had left his flat in Tulse Hill and boarded a bus towards Stockwell Tube station.

He had been followed by police, who had his block of flats under surveillance.

When he was challenged by police in the Tube station, he fled, reportedly leaping the ticket barrier.

Over the past year there have been an increased number of immigration checks at Tube stations - a policy widely reported in Brazilian papers in London.

Police chased him on to a Tube train where he was shot dead.


I have also seen articles that tend to back up what you've said, though sometimes facts like how many shots or other things are not consistent. So I tend to go with the BBC's story.


The number of shots fired were 9, it's how many of them hit him that's confused when reporting. I will post the final report when I can be bothered.


So being shot at 9 times is or is not different from being shot in the head 9 times? You have stated it both ways now.

Quote:
At the end of the day he shouldn't have been shot. It was bundled by the special forces from the begining.


You have yet to prove that. The report does not indicate proof one way or another, but does quote a relative making that claim.

Quote:
What we have here is SAS trigger happy freaks shooting people because they are not held accountable.


Yes, because there are people out there blowing up people and trying to kill them with poison and if they do not stop them they are held accountable .... :roll:

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:36 pm 
Offline
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20562
Location: Southeastern US
X-Black wrote:


This does indicate the officers who shot him believed him to be a threat, which could not have been easily disproved unless he made no threatening actions. According to the report there is independent support for the officer's belief the actions were dangerous given their knowledge at the time.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/menezes/story ... 29,00.html

"All the available evidence suggests that they believed that Jean Charles had been identified as a suicide bomber, that they had been directed to stop him from blowing up the train and that they had to shoot him to prevent that from happening."

In its letter the CPS gives the most graphic details to date of the last moments inside the tube carriage before de Menezes was shot: "Both [firearms officers] refer to Jean Charles getting up and advancing towards them with his hands down by his side before he was tackled by a surveillance officer and forced back into the seat. The firearms officers then shot Jean Charles. I had to consider whether the prosecution could argue that the restraint meant that no bomb could be detonated and that the firearms officers' actions were unlawful.

"However I must bear in mind that this happened in a matter of seconds and there is some independent evidence that supports the officers' accounts that they feared Jean Charles might detonate a bomb. A witness sitting opposite Jean Charles said: 'I got the impression that he was reaching to the left-hand side of his trouser waistband.'"

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:41 pm 
Offline
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20562
Location: Southeastern US
X-Black wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
X-Black wrote:
Quote:

I am an 'idiot' because you cannot provide support for your claims? The application of "innocent until proven guilty" does not apply to being arrested but only the court trial or there would be no arrests.

Which of the other 3 ARRESTED were released?

Why would the police not pick up everyone connected to the people known to be involved with the plot? They are contained until the probability of their innocence or guilt can be determined. If they release a member of the conspiracy they may have trouble arresting them again but if they get a relatively innocent person they can always release them. Do you propose all police have some type of psychic to determine who to arrest or what?


Yes you are an idiot and in our country you are innocent until proved guilty.


In the courts, not in the police station. :wink:

Quote:
If you want to make yourself look like a prick all the time and have me keep pulling links out for you then go find another toy to play with. It's common knowledge that 5 have been released since the beginning of this just because I don't link doesn't mean it hasn't happened.


Just as it is common knowledge there were 9 shots instead of 7 and the prisoners could be held for 3 months instead the 28 days .... :roll:


If you look at the BBC report you will see 8 shot were reported, it's no big deal.


Not 8 shots to the head, but I suppose when you are proved wrong yet again it is not a big deal if you can try to ignore it ....

Quote:
No you are innocent until proved guilty, suspicion is not guilt.


You are considered to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but you are not innocent unless you never committed a crime. That the courts and only the courts are held to that criteria is evident in the ability to arrest on the charge of suspicion, which is predicated on the assumption of guilt by the police based on the evidence they have.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:20 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:41 pm
Posts: 6190
Quote:
No you are innocent until proved guilty, suspicion is not guilt.


No but suspicion will get you held until they can be sure, and when talking terrorism that is very important.

It's one thing to let the drug dealer go a little farther to make sure you have all the proof you need. But if you use that same logic with a possible terrorist, hundreds or even thousands of people may die. Here you need to err on the safe side.

Was the man from Brazil innocent. He very well may have been. But his actions that day raised suspicion, and in light of the events from the previous day, the police could not take a chance.

Terrorism works when their acts of terrorism worry people. The people then ask for more protection, which can lead to innocent people being hurt or killed, and more stringent laws being passed. It's at times like this, that people like you proclaim the government is wrong, which helps to weaken the citizens faith it their government and causes them to question actions that are taken, which weakens the government even more.

Terrorism won't sweep into the UK the way the German army tried. Their goal is to take down the western culture from within. We don't need to give up all our rights to stay safe, but the constant complaints from some about the way the war on terror is being fought only strengthens the other side. They pay close attention to all those that complain about our elected officials, and police. This evening I watched some of an interview with the Pres of Iran. He is fully aware of Pres Bush's approval ratings, and I'm sure sees this as a sign he has a chance to get his nuke.

_________________
I don't know what your problem is but I bet its hard to pronounce.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 66 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot] and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group