EnviroLink Forum

Community • Ecology • Connection
It is currently Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:20 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:28 pm 
Offline
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20469
Location: Southeastern US
Archer wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
I suppose you could take that view, it might result in children being abused without such interventions but that is not important to anyone.
If we were talking about abuse, I could understand that. I just don't see how they are abusing this boy.


It is not abusive to allow him to die from a treatable disease?

Quote:
Quote:
His diet IS a major part of the "treatment" just as is the supposed vegan diet for other ailments.

After Abraham chose to go on the sugar-free, organic diet and take liquid herbal supplements under the supervision of a Mexican clinic,
I understand that. We know the vegan diet to be very unbalanced. From what I understand of this boy's diet, they are adding some things and taking out some things, but it's still somewhat balanced. What I've read doesn't say anything about a vegan diet.


No, but it is not a treatment for the disease any more than a vegan diet is a recognized treatment for some of the other diseases. If it is abusive in one case it must be abusive in all cases.

Quote:
Quote:
He did nothing of which I am aware, what did he do to bring on the need to eat every day or so?
Last I checked, eating was a pleasant experience. I've yet to hear the same about chemo. Eating is 100% necessary for life. Chemo is not. Not to mention, he is on alternative treatments.


Just because it is called an "alternative treatment" does not make it so. The basis for the treatment is diet and a substance whose sale has been banned in the US for years.

Quote:
Chemo is not always the answer.


No, and the agreement allows for valid alternative treatments such as radiation.

Quote:
Quote:
Yes, they are. The chemo will not kill him directly although it is rough. The cancer will most likely kill him without a treatment. There is little chance a vegan diet will kill a child but it will endanger their health.
The way you put that makes a vegan diet sound just like chemo. Neither will kill you, but they are bad for your health. I know what you mean, though. The cancer, I'm sure, would most likely kill him without treatment. But they are treating it. Do you know much about their alternative treatment? I haven't researched it too much myself, but it didn't sound that bad. If I were in his shoes, I'd probably be willing to give it a shot.


I believe most of the "alternative treatments" provided from these Mexican clinics are less effective than simple prayer from the various references. This particular treatment has not been covered sufficiently in the media, but the evidence presented to the courts was not sufficient for it to be an allowed alternative.

Quote:
Quote:
No, the best decision according to those who are knowledgeable on the subject.
Are they not dealing with a doctor that is just that? Seriously, I hadn't thought about that before. Do you know?


The original doctors made the suggested treatment plan and the later more intensive plan, but were not accepted. The treatment from the Mexican clinic is not by a recognized expert in the field by any means. The new final decision on treatment has to be agreed to by a board certified oncologist of their choice, from what I have read. So any doctor in the US with those credentials can sign off on the treatment plan, which places the doctor in a position to ensure it is a valid medical treatment or open himself up to litigation.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:24 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 6321
Location: Texas
So it seems that they may not be making the best choice for him, in our eyes. However, I would not want someone telling me or my kid what I had to do for treatment. I don't believe it's the state's obligation to force anyone into a treatment of any kind. Apparently the judge agreed in this case.

_________________
"Yes like I said it all boils down to morals. What you think is right doesn't make a person wrong because they think different ;)" X-Black


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:44 pm 
Offline
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20469
Location: Southeastern US
Archer wrote:
So it seems that they may not be making the best choice for him, in our eyes. However, I would not want someone telling me or my kid what I had to do for treatment. I don't believe it's the state's obligation to force anyone into a treatment of any kind. Apparently the judge agreed in this case.


From what I read it did not appear the state wanted chemo specifically, as in a real treatment program by a real doctor, but the media reports are sometimes in conflict. In any case, I believe the court ruling was in the best interest of the boy that he receive something more than the 'quack' treatment.

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:02 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 2:02 pm
Posts: 2314
all modern medicines and pharmaceuticals in use today come from
nature, although they are now produced in synthetic form the
chemical composition and makeup remains the same.

make no mistake about it the drug manufacturers, medical establishment and government don't want Americans finding cheaper,less invasive and less debilitating alternatives..keeping us sick, diseased and dependent on their drugs keeps their pockets filled with lots of nice green $$$$$.

what we are witnessing is medical/government terrorism now intruding on our personal right to self-determination when it comes to our own healthcare and those of our loved ones...we should all be alarmed.

Eastern and Asian medicine has always looked to nature for cures.


http://www.newstarget.com/z019852.html

"Today substantial laboratory data indicates that the Hoxsey herbal tonic could have genuine value against cancer," writes Kenny Ausubel in "When Healing Becomes A Crime." Ausubel continues, "Thousands of patients believe it saved their lives. There is no dispute that the Hoxsey remedies for external cancer are effective. Over the course of this century, numerous prominent figures including senators, congressmen, judges, and even doctors have affirmed Hoxsey's reputed cures and repeatedly called for an investigation. Why, then, has it taken so long? The answer is buried in medical politics. It revolves around a fierce trade war fought over money as well as fundamental conflict of medical opinion. Its consequence has been the exclusion and outright suppression of Hoxsey as well as numerous other unorthodox cancer therapies."

_________________
join the Ron Paul Revolution!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

if I could wake up tomorrow morning and push a button and all the AR's would be gone, I would lay awake tonight in anticipation of pushing the button.~~OHIOSTEVE


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:19 pm 
Offline
EnviroLink Volunteer
EnviroLink Volunteer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:45 pm
Posts: 20469
Location: Southeastern US
Link to Canadian information site

Summary
"Review by the NCI of the 'cures' from these treatments failed to reveal any evidence of effectiveness for these patients with cancer." (Spencer)

"After study of the literature and other available information, the American Cancer Society has found no evidence that the Hoxsey Method results in objective benefit in the treatment of cancer in human beings. Lacking such evidence, the American Cancer Society strongly urges individuals with cancer not to seek treatment with the Hoxsey Method." (CA 1990)

_________________
With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none”
Arthur Schopenhauer


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:28 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:49 pm
Posts: 6178
Location: Dame Glooy'd Sneefrugs
Mrm. I think it was put best on the OCF forum when someone said something along the lines of when people are desperate to avoid procedures such as chemo/radiation and/or when they are so desperate to hold on to life they are willing to believe in anything that might help them.

_________________
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish he didn't trust me so much. - Mother Theresa Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:36 pm 
Offline
Member with over 1000 posts!
Member with over 1000 posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 6321
Location: Texas
Wayne Stollings wrote:
Archer wrote:
So it seems that they may not be making the best choice for him, in our eyes. However, I would not want someone telling me or my kid what I had to do for treatment. I don't believe it's the state's obligation to force anyone into a treatment of any kind. Apparently the judge agreed in this case.


From what I read it did not appear the state wanted chemo specifically, as in a real treatment program by a real doctor, but the media reports are sometimes in conflict. In any case, I believe the court ruling was in the best interest of the boy that he receive something more than the 'quack' treatment.


Yeah, I think so.

_________________
"Yes like I said it all boils down to morals. What you think is right doesn't make a person wrong because they think different ;)" X-Black


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group