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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:03 pm 
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Denni - oops, sorry, I didn't read your last phrase. A group home setting. Is he capable of functioning typically, and has cycles where he needs help? Does he also have some mental retardation?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:10 pm 
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I'm familiar with Mental Health programs myself worked for a non-profit
for 13 years that provides services to people with MR and Cognitive Disabilities..we tried to get him into the Medicaid Waiver Program that is Federal but those services are only for people with Impaired Disabilities NOT Mental Illness. He has sporadic episodes where he'll take off and no one can find him....we provide for him what we can financially but he needs more help in a structured environment.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:34 pm 
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denni, it sounds like your family is looking for services to hold him against his will, and I agree, I don't think you'll find those for a nonviolent person.

I understand the desire to do that, to ensure he's safe and getting help, but I don't think he can be held for treatment if he wants to flee.

Have you been able to find out-patient treatment for him that includes group therapy and medication, and perhaps casemanagement?

Here's an organization I know of peripherally, that might be able to help you locate services you are interested in. I don't know if they are limited to Austin, but I think they could help point you in the right direction.

PLAN:

http://www.planctx.org/who_is_plan/board.htm


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:42 pm 
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LC wrote:
what would you do with the homeless mentally ill population? I agree, there are a LOT of mentally ill people living on the streets. In the past they were locked up against their will in "asylums", places that were often horror houses. What would you do with people who don't want to live in a community shelter type setting, and who are too mentally ill to take care of themselves properly?

I'm really curious, because I don't really see a solution.

I am in a rent-to-own situation through my parents of a 4-suite place (I have to live on one of the suites). One of my tenets is schizophrenic and on welfare. Both my other two tenets have left due to his craziness and the resulting constant mess in the shared bathroom. I cannot rent the suite below him due to his jumping so hard as to break ceiling lights and screaming obscenities at the voices in his head. My only option is to kick him out but he is really a nice guy...it is just impossible to rent the other suites nor to get good university grades myself with him. What will happen to him? he will just bounce around from place to place until he kills himself or ends up in jail. I don't see a solution for him either.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:21 pm 
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denni50 wrote:
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AGAIN show me where any of your ideas are called for in the constitution.......They are not. BTW your income tax does NOT go to pay for the things you are talking about...It is stolen from you ILLEGALLY and used to pay the interest on the national debt. They borrow money from the fed.....pay for their programs and then steal from you to repay the loan.
You are also wrong about the country being by the people for the people etc etc..it is a GOVERNMENT byn the people and for the people....WE are supposed to be the bosses yet we cower and quake in fear from them.....ALSO why on earth would you want to turn over 7% of the U.S economy to the governmeny when they DO things like pay 5 grand for a hammer? Sounds pretty stupid to me.
Also you try to make it sound like a lack of compassion on my part...do you have an accountant? Does he do everything he can to reduce you taxes? ORRRRR do you tell him to kick in a few thousand extra to help out the social programs the government runs....when someone STEALS from you and you allow it that is NOT compassion that is ignorance imo.


good grief...what psycho-babble nonsense are you ranting about...you're
so incoherent the only part I come close to understanding is something
about an accountant.... :shock:





:lol: :lol: :lol: you too? :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:40 pm 
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Hmm.. I find it amusing that the flag all of a sudden has become responsible for homeless people, healthcare, etc. The flag is a symbol of our nation.. many people cherish it because they cherish this country. The flag is not responsible for the government or the people here.. it's a symbol. Far as I know the flag stood (and still does stand) for freedom and a strong country. The issues she talks about aren't with the flag.. but rather the government and it's laws/policies/etc.. why not address it as such? The flag has nothing to do with the decisions the people we elect make... nobody ever asks it for it's opion.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:16 pm 
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Grace I could dumb it down a little and throw in a bunch of emotional knee jerk BS and then maybe you'd get it.....denni you don't wanna understand it because you choose not to..Plain and simple, all of the social programs and "help" you are talking about are NOT called for in the constitution.....Having the government STEAL your money and give it to someone else is not a sign of compassion on your part it is redistribution of wealth by our socialist leaning government.....You said I had no compassion because I do not believe in the government taking care of people. I asked about your tax preperation to see if you send in extra or work to get as much back as possible. If you are tryiong to minimize your tax liability then you are OBVIOUSLY not compassionate. Otherwise you'd just send in extra to give to the people who won't take care of themselves. I am sorry about your cousin but why is that MY responsibility to take care of him? Is it the RIGHT Thing to do? Sure but where is this called for CONSTITUTIONALLY? And why should I be forced to pay to take care of someone else if I do not want to?
L.C obviously you are right about the hammer ( probably as the govt is F##KED UP)...but even with that why on earth would ANYONE want to entrust even MORE money to the bunch of thiefs and crooks?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:32 pm 
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OHIOSTEVE wrote:
Grace I could dumb it down a little and throw in a bunch of emotional knee jerk BS and then maybe you'd get it.....denni you don't wanna understand it because you choose not to..Plain and simple, all of the social programs and "help" you are talking about are NOT called for in the constitution.....Having the government STEAL your money and give it to someone else is not a sign of compassion on your part it is redistribution of wealth by our socialist leaning government.....You said I had no compassion because I do not believe in the government taking care of people. I asked about your tax preperation to see if you send in extra or work to get as much back as possible. If you are tryiong to minimize your tax liability then you are OBVIOUSLY not compassionate. Otherwise you'd just send in extra to give to the people who won't take care of themselves. I am sorry about your cousin but why is that MY responsibility to take care of him? Is it the RIGHT Thing to do? Sure but where is this called for CONSTITUTIONALLY? And why should I be forced to pay to take care of someone else if I do not want to?
L.C obviously you are right about the hammer ( probably as the govt is F##KED UP)...but even with that why on earth would ANYONE want to entrust even MORE money to the bunch of thiefs and crooks?



What I *get* is your overwrought, hand-wringing, hysterical outbursts via your posts which are dumbed down plenty without you even knowing it. Dumb just comes natural to ya.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:47 am 
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Excellent Grace...why not try to prove me wrong or enlighten me...you again resort to a BS post when you cannot fathom the facts...


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:14 am 
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OHIOSTEVE
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..... I am sorry about your cousin but why is that MY responsibility to take care of him? Is it the RIGHT Thing to do? Sure but where is this called for CONSTITUTIONALLY?




We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:17 am 
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establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity,


Why do I feel the founding fathers did not envision their words "promote the general welfare" to be turned into welfare checks.

When you look at the words as a whole, the overall meaning is something different. Justice, domestic tranquility, defense, and secure, are also included with the word welfare.

Protecting others and giving to others is one thing. Spreading the wealth to others so everyone has the same thing, even if they did nothing to deserve that is another matter, and is not something I see in the words you posted.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:09 am 
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Correct Hunter...Liberals use that passage to promote their socialist agenda. Try again grace.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:21 am 
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From The Life of Colonel David Crockett,
by Edward S. Ellis (Philadelphia: Porter & Coates, 1884)

Crockett was then the lion of Washington. I was a great admirer of his character, and, having several friends who were intimate with him, I found no difficulty in making his acquaintance. I was fascinated with him, and he seemed to take a fancy to me.

I was one day in the lobby of the House of Representatives when a bill was taken up appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its support – rather, as I thought, because it afforded the speakers a fine opportunity for display than from the necessity of convincing anybody, for it seemed to me that everybody favored it. The Speaker was just about to put the question when Crockett arose. Everybody expected, of course, that he was going to make one of his characteristic speeches in support of the bill. He commenced:

"Mr. Speaker – I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, if suffering there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right so to appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I have never heard that the government was in arrears to him. This government can owe no debts but for services rendered, and at a stipulated price. If it is a debt, how much is it? Has it been audited, and the amount due ascertained? If it is a debt, this is not the place to present it for payment, or to have its merits examined. If it is a debt, we owe more than we can ever hope to pay, for we owe the widow of every soldier who fought in the War of 1812 precisely the same amount. There is a woman in my neighborhood, the widow of as gallant a man as ever shouldered a musket. He fell in battle. She is as good in every respect as this lady, and is as poor. She is earning her daily bread by her daily labor; but if I were to introduce a bill to appropriate five or ten thousand dollars for her benefit, I should be laughed at, and my bill would not get five votes in this House. There are thousands of widows in the country just such as the one I have spoken of, but we never hear of any of these large debts to them. Sir, this is no debt. The government did not owe it to the deceased when he was alive; it could not contract it after he died. I do not wish to be rude, but I must be plain. Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as a charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much of our own money as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/ellis1.html


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:36 am 
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OHIOSTEVE wrote:
Correct Hunter...Liberals use that passage to promote their socialist agenda. Try again grace.


I didn't write it Steve. I was answering your question... :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:58 am 
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No grace some men with great vision and intelligence wrote it.....You simply grasped at it as a means to support socialism and it does not work.


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