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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:34 am 
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Iowanic wrote:
Sorry, Animal lover, about 'the small pest control'. lol!

What I meant, is I've heard duckies really mow down slugs and small insects. I've also heard that they're used in Asia to 'patrol' rice fields for naughty little insects. Seems a very useful ability to have on a organic farm. Why waste pesticides when ducks can get the job done?


My ducks also kill rats and snakes along with flies and misquitos, plus all of the usual. They are very beneficial animals in many ways. But from my research the pest control is pretty specific to this species. I may be wrong about that but I have read information to support that. They are also suppose to be considered the best eating duck as they are bigger and meatier. And from what the guy next door tell me the eggs are very similar to chicken eggs in taste.


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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:45 am 
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Your ducks kill rats!?? Thems some heavy-duty ducks!


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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:48 am 
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Iowanic wrote:
Here's as I see it:

Cows= Milk, meat, hide, manure

Horses= work, manure, hide(?)


You've made some thoughtful observations, Animal Lover. Basically, it seems to come down to horse work vs. cowmilk. If we go with cattle, then there's less reason for goats. Personally; I'm leaning to replacing cattle with goats and sticking with horses.

But..... are goats more effective in turning plants into milk then cattle, mewonders?


Horses, also can provide milk and meat they have in the past and will in the future too.

For pure usable and food supply goats are more effective than cattle for a colony. The rabbits would be a good back up. The point where horses/cattle/oxen/buffalo come in would be in relation to tractors.

The work aspect would be the primary desire and the rest would be secondary. You can get a cow breed for milk, work, or meat or a combination that is less effective in other additional areas to compensate.

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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:06 pm 
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Iowanic wrote:
Ok. Let's hear some views on this critter match-up:

FOWL VS PIGS

Fowl= useful in small pest control(Ducks especially)
lay-eggs
meat-source

Pigs= Tough and will eat wide range of food
Meat-source

which suits better?

It's a tough call. Both have valuable properties for settlers. My answer would depend on the type of climate. Some of the heritage breeds of both fowl and pigs would be good to consider, especially the Large Black Pigs that were preferred by the settlers of North America. With black skin, they don't suffer from sunburn like the white breeds, they are an outdoor pig only needing straw to burrow into for winter shelter, and they are good scavengers with a calm temperament.

On the other hand, the Campbell duck might be a better choice:

Quote:
Campbells are prolific layers and active foragers. Most Campbells lay their first eggs when 5-7 months old and will average 250-340 eggs of superb texture and flavor per year. With an age staggered flock, one may have eggs year-round. Campells are high-strung and energetic, and need plenty of space to graze and forage. (Ives, 228) "If they consume an adequate diet, are kept calm, provided sufficient space, and run in flocks consisting of no more than 50 to a maximum of 200 birds, Campbells have proven to be amazingly adaptable. They have performed admirably in environments ranging from arid deserts with temperatures of 100oF. to humid tropical rainforests with more than 200 inches of annual precipitation to cold Northern regions where temperatures can remain below 0oF for weeks at a time." (Holderread, 41)


Oops, forgot the link: http://www.albc-usa.org/cpl/waterfowl/campbell.html


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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:43 am 
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Here's a 'side' thought on the horses:

Recall now; in most "modern" countries, tractors have replaced horses. The colonists in my story would have to walk right over that trend to be 'greenest'(IMO).

But could that last? I can see either feast or famine pushing some farmers(Years down the line, perhaps) to switcg to tractors and once some do; do the rest have to change to keep up?

It's a perplexing riddle!


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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:59 am 
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Iowanic wrote:
Here's a 'side' thought on the horses:

Recall now; in most "modern" countries, tractors have replaced horses. The colonists in my story would have to walk right over that trend to be 'greenest'(IMO).

But could that last? I can see either feast or famine pushing some farmers(Years down the line, perhaps) to switcg to tractors and once some do; do the rest have to change to keep up?

It's a perplexing riddle!


In the beginning the colonists will be putting huge amounts of energy and effoer into just survival and establishing a base. This means most will be farmers to some degree just to provide enough food for the colony. It will not be until the colony moves to a more urban situation that would result in mechanization. The cost of acquiring a tractor would be prohibitive unless you could increase your profit by more than you increased your costs. With nearly everyone producing some of their own food this would not be possible nor would it be possible to take the market away from an established farmer using older technology without the newer technology beign cheaper to buy or operate. That point will arrive, but it would require a cheap fuel source, which you have not provided them.

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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:09 am 
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I've been thinking it over and maybe Animallover was right about ostriches.
They have benefits the colonists can use.


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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:51 am 
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Snakes as garden your garden patrol but you can't milk them. Well you can milk them ,but I don't think you will be drinking the liquid. :twisted: Geese are good weeders but you can't milk them either unless you consider yolk the drink of your choice. :mrgreen:

How about Buffalox as your work horse. Cross between a Buffalo & a Texas long horn. You will already have a neck and yoke provided for pulling heavy loads tilling ground and providing organic fertilizer. Question is ,what kinda wife would you need to get the fields plowed. Tug Boat Annie Available??

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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:51 pm 
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I've never heard of buffalox. But I read a small bit about the cattalo. I heard they didn't fare too well, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:14 pm 
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You HEARD wrong???

http://tinyurl.com/2m8pjd

http://www.ababeefalo.org/abi4.htm

Unlike some other hybrid species, Beefalo are usually not sterile.

A mule is a hybrid species which results from the cross-breeding of a horse and a donkey. Nearly all mules are unable to produce offspring. They are sterile.

Although Beefalo is also classified as a hybrid species, they are not sterile like mules. Today, ranchers and farmers wishing to raise Beefalo will find a large number of fertile males and females to choose from to start their Beefalo herds. If you breed a male Beefalo with a female Beefalo, the calf will definitely be a Beefalo.


Virtually any other breed of domestic cattle can be used to create Beefalo.

It's a well-established principle that the cross-breeding of two or more breeds of domestic cattle will usually result in calves with genetic strengths and improved hybrid vigor. Many of today's composite cattle breeds are the result of cross-breeding programs which have combined three or more breeds of domestic cattle.

A Beefalo can have up to 3/8 Bison genetics. The other 5/8 of the genetic makeup can come from virtually any of the domestic breeds of cattle (Angus, Limousin, Hereford, etc.) or from any of the newer composite breeds (Beefmaster, Santa Gertrudis, etc.). The breeding can be accomplished by natural service, by artificial insemination, or by using newer reproductive techniques like embryo transfer.

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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:45 pm 
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The plot thickens!
I'm learning more about 'farm' animals then I ever thought I'd need, LOL!

This could be a square-off between the ostriches and Buffalox.

Ostriches seem to turn feed into usable meat better the bufx
And they produce eggs.

Buffalox may be more adaptable to rough conditions.
And(I suspect) it'll be easier to find people who have raised them, rather then ostriches.

Gotta think it over. These match-ups really make ya think!


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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:01 pm 
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A question:

Between ostriches and buffalox; I wonder which would take up more space?
(That would be important in their transportation)

Will 2000 pounds of ostriches take up more volume then 2000 pounds of bullalox?


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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:18 pm 
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I vote for the ostriches.... The taste YUMMY, you'll have feathers for bed stuffing, and BIG eggs. One ton of BABY ostriches would certainly take up more space, but you'd also have a higher number of organisms with which to begin your colonization, which is critical in ensuring their survival.

Our ducks ate the CRAP out of our yard slugs. Ew. I hate slugs.

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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:47 pm 
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I'm leaning to the ostriches.

So:

Goats: 3/4 nannies, 1/4 billies
Horse: Canadians, I think.
Rabbits: I wonder how many you'd have to have. Good feed-to-food ratio though.
Ostriches: wonder if it's possible to herd these with dogs?

fresh water fish: I'm still pondering types, though.
We want duribility, good feed-to-food ratio and (if possible) quick reproduction.

Pigs are iffy, current standing, anyway.

More common poultry's been meantioned a few times.

Which of these seems most suited?

chickens
Ducks
turkeys
pheasant
guinea fowl


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 Post subject: Re: Over-herd
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:59 pm 
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Note: What of sheep? Wool is a mighty hard product to pass up!


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