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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:37 pm 
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animallover wrote:
Well, I have waited and I just can't believe that no one has mentioned that Saturn's, Netune's and Pluto's temps have also been rising. :-

So I guess you can say there is no correlation between 3 plants having rising temps but it would make sense to see if any others are having the same problem. But if Mars, Saturn, Neptune and Pluto are having a rise in temps, which they are :wink: , then hunters theory actually holds water, so to speak.


Ok, what temperature increases have there been for the other planets?

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:40 pm 
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Why would that be interesting, other than general interest, that is?


Isn't that enough?

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I don't know, maybe the number of your posts that try to make the case there is no human connection to the increase in temperature we are experiencing?


Now, now, now, let's not exaggerate. I've never said there is no human connection. That would be silly. How can we live here and have no connection.

I don't know Wayne. It's starting to seem like you're concerned that some of my points are being accepted, so you need to make it seem like I am some kind of anti global warming crackpot. I agree we're are warming, I agree we have a connection to that, and I agree we need to do something about it. But as I've said before, we do not need to commit economic suicide while others go along as always.

So it seems we agree the planet is warming, we agree there is a human connection, and we agree we need to do something. So it seems our only disagreement is on economic suicide.

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Sure, but some seem to jump to really interesting conclusions not based on realistic science.


Would you care to point out where on this thread I reached any conclusion. I merely pointed out some facts, and ASKED if there may be a connection. I hardly see that as a conclusion.

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All of what space junk we throw at Jupiter or even Mars for that matter?


We've had some crash into Mars, so I'd assume they would now be considered junk. And I'd assume someday the ones we have orbiting around various planets will eventually give out and crash, which would make them junk.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:43 pm 
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Quote:
Well, I have waited and I just can't believe that no one has mentioned that Saturn's, Netune's and Pluto's temps have also been rising. :-

So I guess you can say there is no correlation between 3 plants having rising temps but it would make sense to see if any others are having the same problem. But if Mars, Saturn, Neptune and Pluto are having a rise in temps, which they are :wink: , then hunters theory actually holds water, so to speak.


wayne wrote
Ok, what temperature increases have there been for the other planets?


Unless I'm mistaken, Pluto is no longer a planet.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:46 pm 
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The outer planets (and Pluto) with the minimum distance from the sun and the temperature ranges.

Saturn
840 million miles
Temperature at Cloud Tops: -170o C (-274o F)

Uranus
1.7 billion miles
Temperature at Cloud Tops: -200o C ( -328o F)

Neptune
2.77 billion miles
Temperature at Cloud Tops: -210o C ( -346o F)

Pluto
3.757 billion miles
-387° to -369° F

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:46 pm 
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hunter88 wrote:
Quote:
Well, I have waited and I just can't believe that no one has mentioned that Saturn's, Netune's and Pluto's temps have also been rising. :-

So I guess you can say there is no correlation between 3 plants having rising temps but it would make sense to see if any others are having the same problem. But if Mars, Saturn, Neptune and Pluto are having a rise in temps, which they are :wink: , then hunters theory actually holds water, so to speak.


wayne wrote
Ok, what temperature increases have there been for the other planets?


Unless I'm mistaken, Pluto is no longer a planet.

You are correct, Pluto is no longer officially a planet.....which IMO was just silly.


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:50 pm 
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hunter88 wrote:
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Why would that be interesting, other than general interest, that is?


Isn't that enough?

Quote:
I don't know, maybe the number of your posts that try to make the case there is no human connection to the increase in temperature we are experiencing?


Now, now, now, let's not exaggerate. I've never said there is no human connection. That would be silly. How can we live here and have no connection.

I don't know Wayne. It's starting to seem like you're concerned that some of my points are being accepted, so you need to make it seem like I am some kind of anti global warming crackpot. I agree we're are warming, I agree we have a connection to that, and I agree we need to do something about it. But as I've said before, we do not need to commit economic suicide while others go along as always.

So it seems we agree the planet is warming, we agree there is a human connection, and we agree we need to do something. So it seems our only disagreement is on economic suicide.


As opposed to real suicide of the species? That is a real possibility should the climate change cause droughts and flooding in the right areas.

Quote:
Quote:
Sure, but some seem to jump to really interesting conclusions not based on realistic science.


Would you care to point out where on this thread I reached any conclusion. I merely pointed out some facts, and ASKED if there may be a connection. I hardly see that as a conclusion.


As if I said you jumped to those conclusions, but some of those you have quoted in the past might. :wink:

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All of what space junk we throw at Jupiter or even Mars for that matter?


We've had some crash into Mars, so I'd assume they would now be considered junk. And I'd assume someday the ones we have orbiting around various planets will eventually give out and crash, which would make them junk.


Future junk would not have an effect now would it? :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:51 pm 
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I almost forgot.

Quote:
I don't know, maybe the number of your posts that try to make the case there is no human connection to the increase in temperature we are experiencing?


Wayne, if I was going to connect Jupiter's climate change to ours, I probably would have put this in the enviromental section not the open section. I put it here because I was noting they were also having a climate change, and since it seems we, that is humans, get blamed for anything concerning climate change, a humorous twist could be added to the story. Which explains the title of the thread. Sometimes I think you're getting a bit defensive when it comes to GW discussions.

Could it be GW has caused you to loose some of your sense of humor. :wink: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:53 pm 
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You are correct, Pluto is no longer officially a planet.....which IMO was just silly.


I agree. Everyone knew Pluto was Mickey's dog. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:57 pm 
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Quote:
So it seems our only disagreement is on economic suicide.


As opposed to real suicide of the species? That is a real possibility should the climate change cause droughts and flooding in the right areas.


As opposed to the wrong areas. :lol:

Well like you said anything is possible. So I suppose it could go your way, or it might not. Then again it may go your way in the wrong areas and not go your way in the right areas. Or it may go your way in the right areas and the other way in the wrong areas.

It does get confusing doesn't it.

By the way, who gets to say what areas are the right areas and what areas are the wrong areas. Would that also be Al's job. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:02 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:
animallover wrote:
Well, I have waited and I just can't believe that no one has mentioned that Saturn's, Netune's and Pluto's temps have also been rising. :-

So I guess you can say there is no correlation between 3 plants having rising temps but it would make sense to see if any others are having the same problem. But if Mars, Saturn, Neptune and Pluto are having a rise in temps, which they are :wink: , then hunters theory actually holds water, so to speak.


Ok, what temperature increases have there been for the other planets?


In a study recently published in Geophysical Research Letters, H.B. Hammel of the Space Science Institute in Boulder, Colo., and G.W. Lockwood of Lowell Observatory in Flagstaff, Ariz., found that Neptune's brightness appears to correlate with temperature changes on Earth. They also noted that Neptune's temperature warmed from 1980 to 2004.

Mars, another planet that man has yet to visit, is also going through a warming period. According to NASA's findings, ice caps near its south pole are melting.
http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=265504461371071


In what is largely a reversal of an August announcement, astronomers today said Pluto is undergoing global warming in its thin atmosphere even as it moves farther from the Sun on its long, odd-shaped orbit.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/pluto_warming_021009.html

Is that enough for tonight??.....I am too tired to have to look all that stuff up tonight.
I can look it up tomorrow if you wish.


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:09 pm 
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animallover wrote:
Wayne Stollings wrote:
animallover wrote:
Well, I have waited and I just can't believe that no one has mentioned that Saturn's, Netune's and Pluto's temps have also been rising. :-

So I guess you can say there is no correlation between 3 plants having rising temps but it would make sense to see if any others are having the same problem. But if Mars, Saturn, Neptune and Pluto are having a rise in temps, which they are :wink: , then hunters theory actually holds water, so to speak.


Ok, what temperature increases have there been for the other planets?


In a study recently published in Geophysical Research Letters, H.B. Hammel of the Space Science Institute in Boulder, Colo., and G.W. Lockwood of Lowell Observatory in Flagstaff, Ariz., found that Neptune's brightness appears to correlate with temperature changes on Earth. They also noted that Neptune's temperature warmed from 1980 to 2004.

Mars, another planet that man has yet to visit, is also going through a warming period. According to NASA's findings, ice caps near its south pole are melting.
http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=265504461371071


An editorial? Now all we need to do is track down the references and see if they say anything .... :roll:


Quote:
In what is largely a reversal of an August announcement, astronomers today said Pluto is undergoing global warming in its thin atmosphere even as it moves farther from the Sun on its long, odd-shaped orbit.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/pluto_warming_021009.html


From the site:

Pluto's atmospheric pressure has tripled over the past 14 years, indicating a stark temperature rise, the researchers said. The change is likely a seasonal event, much as seasons on Earth change as the hemispheres alter their inclination to the Sun during the planet's annual orbit.

Quote:
Is that enough for tonight??.....I am too tired to have to look all that stuff up tonight.
I can look it up tomorrow if you wish.


Yep that would be better.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:16 pm 
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Wayne Stollings wrote:

From the site:

Pluto's atmospheric pressure has tripled over the past 14 years, indicating a stark temperature rise, the researchers said. The change is likely a seasonal event, much as seasons on Earth change as the hemispheres alter their inclination to the Sun during the planet's annual orbit.


Also from the site.....
Quote:
Pluto remains a mysterious world whose secrets are no so easily explained, ..........


The reasons for the warming are speculation but the warming itself is a fact.


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:23 pm 
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Earth is heating up lately, but so are Mars, Pluto and other worlds in our solar system, leading some scientists to speculate that a change in the sun’s activity is the common thread linking all these baking events.

Others argue that such claims are misleading and create the false impression that rapid global warming, as Earth is experiencing, is a natural phenomenon.

While evidence suggests fluctuations in solar activity can affect climate on Earth, and that it has done so in the past, the majority of climate scientists and astrophysicists agree that the sun is not to blame for the current and historically sudden uptick in global temperatures on Earth, which seems to be mostly a mess created by our own species. ...........


“Global warming on Neptune's moon Triton as well as Jupiter and Pluto, and now Mars has some [scientists] scratching their heads over what could possibly be in common with the warming of all these planets ... Could there be something in common with all the planets in our solar system that might cause them all to warm at the same time?”
http://www.livescience.com/environment/070312_solarsys_warming.html

Again the warming is a fact but the reasons are speculative.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:38 am 
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hunter88 wrote:
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So it seems our only disagreement is on economic suicide.


As opposed to real suicide of the species? That is a real possibility should the climate change cause droughts and flooding in the right areas.


As opposed to the wrong areas. :lol:


Yes, then only a portion of the population would die, but a larger number of deaths is very probable.

Quote:
Well like you said anything is possible. So I suppose it could go your way, or it might not. Then again it may go your way in the wrong areas and not go your way in the right areas. Or it may go your way in the right areas and the other way in the wrong areas.

It does get confusing doesn't it.


Just like Russian Roulette, only with more bullets added every year .....

Quote:
By the way, who gets to say what areas are the right areas and what areas are the wrong areas. Would that also be Al's job. :mrgreen:


Nah, just the ones critical to food production, the fallout (possibly literally) from that will do the rest.

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:48 am 
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animallover wrote:
Earth is heating up lately, but so are Mars, Pluto and other worlds in our solar system, leading some scientists to speculate that a change in the sun’s activity is the common thread linking all these baking events.

Others argue that such claims are misleading and create the false impression that rapid global warming, as Earth is experiencing, is a natural phenomenon.

While evidence suggests fluctuations in solar activity can affect climate on Earth, and that it has done so in the past, the majority of climate scientists and astrophysicists agree that the sun is not to blame for the current and historically sudden uptick in global temperatures on Earth, which seems to be mostly a mess created by our own species. ...........


“Global warming on Neptune's moon Triton as well as Jupiter and Pluto, and now Mars has some [scientists] scratching their heads over what could possibly be in common with the warming of all these planets ... Could there be something in common with all the planets in our solar system that might cause them all to warm at the same time?”
http://www.livescience.com/environment/070312_solarsys_warming.html

Again the warming is a fact but the reasons are speculative.


At least now we know Neptune is not heating, just one of its moons, which is why editorials generally make poor sources of information. Of course, if the sun were the cause the warming should be evident on every body within the solar system if it was capable of making a measurable change on Pluto. All in all the article does seem to put it into perspective given how few solar bodies are involved.

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