EnviroLink Forum

do you have any evidence of this? I have googled it and only source on wikipedia is refereces to southern babtists denouncing the prophet in this way...is this your source? please elaborate?

the above article sidesteps the question of who's land Israel used to be...
check this one out...
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

I don't use wikipedia for research. However it is in historical texts and in the writings of islamic scholars. Its very boring reading which I don't plan to do again.

IIRC Mohammed consummated his marriage to a child when she was 9. I think there's a wiki on islam (wikiislam?) itself but I don't know its accuracy and have never read it.

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"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com

the wikipedia article on mohamed, refers to his marriage to a 9 year old that was not consumated until she was 14-15 years old. That is still young by today's standards but not by the standards of the day, in just about any country you'd care to mention...

Wikipedia is good for quick general information but not good for research, you are right about that, since it can be edited by anyone. However, is there another source for your smear attack? what about the murderer, rapist and theif things?

Did I not just say I don't use wikipedia?



The truth isn't a smear. I don't have handy the names of the texts. I have known 'good' muslims but they admit the seedy side of their prophet. They are muslim because its what they were born into and its all they know. Some left some stayed.

Just for grins I did a quick search. There's a wikiislam too.

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Qur%27an, ... s_Murderer

Here's a piece on his marriage to Aisha -

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Qur%27an% ... d_Marriage

_________________
"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/aishamarriage.pdf

hmmmm...there does appear to be evidence that she was indeed 9 years old. but here's my problem, context. This link describes how normal age of marriage in 'them days' was at puberty, regardless of the number of years...

You can find examples in our old testament of our prophets engaging in equally repugnant activities (by today's standards) that were considered 'normal' at that time. This is why I have a problem with people picking out things about Islam, the prophet, etc, and using them as 'evidence' of why Islam is violent, evil , or otherwise 'wrong'. you can find the same kinds of behaviours in our own past and in our bible. ..

same can be said for the many sects of Christianity...

I had a friend who converted to Islam in Thailand, and no doubt many muslims have converted to Christianity over the years too.

You might find that muslims growing up in secular US society are likely to resist the strict religious observances of their parents. I say the same is true for Christians too. Most of my friends are less religuos than their parents and some have down right rebelled.

this link ...

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/coup53/coup53p1.php

outlines just how extreme islamic governments come to power in this modern age...it has all to do with western interference and islamic nationalistic reaction to that...this example is about the CIA and MI5(?) orchestrated coup that inserted the Shah into power in Iran. It was in reaction to this that eventually the Shah's brutal dictatorship, supported closely by the US, was overthrown and replaced by the brutal theocracy we see there today.

it comes back to oil, greed, and money...

Not really nor did they have the stature of Mohammed. Mohammed was THE prophet. Besides, its the New Testament that has more relevance.

You have to take in the whole picture. No other religion approaches the violence and brutality of islam throughout history.

_________________
"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com

I think that you are not honestly acknowledging the violence of Christian history (past and present), and not only official church sponsored violence either...in addition to Inquisition, witch trials, crusades, catholic vs protestant purges and civil wars, pogroms against Jews, the Holocaust itself was carried out in the middle of Christian Europe in a Christian Country, muslims had nothing to do with that one...look at European colonisation which were devastating on local indigenous peoples, American colonisation of the West, American slavery (christian on christian I might add), Serbian ethnic cleansing of Muslims in the 1990's, some might go so far as to include the first and second world wars which were dominated by christian cultures...I think that's a bit of a stretch myself but I've read that statement... muslim involvment was minor to insignificant in those devastating world events that killed hundreds of millions of people world wide...I couldn't say which was/is more violent but Christianity does have a very violent past, (and present), how many 'good christians' are 'okay' with the 'collateral damage' their tax money is causing in Muslim countries?...how many people (US soldiers, Iraqi Soldiers, Iraqi women , children, aged, and other non-combatants...) were killed in the illegal (under international law) war of aggression (invasion of Iraq) caused by a Christian President (GWBush), who used lies to start the war?

this website (below) takes an interesting look at some of these issues, from a muslim, academic, POV.

http://www.islam101.com/terror/mythViolence.htm

on the issue of who's more violent, I believe that I have said all I can say so I'll leave it at that for now...

I have to add this one last comment...the Holocaust was committed in the name of Christianity...albeit a mad man's version, but in the name of- anyway...so you can add that to the list of Christian violence...

Sure I am. I make no excuses for the violence in the Crusades (which was a response to muslim invasion), the Inquisition or anything else. At present no other religion comes close to matching islam's violence and brutality. Bush didn't take his orders from clerics nor does the US purposely target innocent women and children. We don't have suicide bombers, we don't go into insane violent rages about tame cartoons, the list is endless.

You can google to your heart's content to find propaganda that supports what you want to believe but the collective facts tell the story.



Hitler also admired islam for the way it spread the faith by the sword mentality. Muslim leaders (clerics) still want the Jews wiped off the face of the earth which would explain their mutual admiration. What Christian counterpart wants the same of any other group? There may be an odd one or two but they're not nearly as numerous.

_________________
"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com

you have not convinced me and I certainly won't convince you so I'll just leave it at that re: christian and muslim violence.

btw, that was a dodge you used re: hitler ...even if he did admire the muslim military attitude/history, he did use Christianity to justify his holocaust on the jews. SO, that IS in fact an example of christian violence, and one that is really hard to top...

you can disown that as being a perversion of Christianity, which I believe it was, that it did not represent Christianity, but you would then have to see that current acts of violence and repression in Islam are not necessarily representative of Islam either, but of the governments and the people who practice them...

Religion, be it Islam, Christianity, Judeaism, is only as violent as the people who practice it. there are examples in the teachings and history of all three to be used to justify all kinds of violence and persecution, as well as peace and harmony...which is why there are so many sects in each religion, and so much violent history.

I'll leave it at that.

no but he played up being a born again Christian, and his illegal war has cost many thousands of innocent civilian lives.

Islam's roots are in violence in a way no other is.

_________________
"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com