EnviroLink Forum

R-dog: hence does this violence stem from? What was the root of it, way back when, when it was a-birthing and what's watering this behavior now? Your view?

the blokade of Gaza that's been going on for 'how long'?? is still going on and is a war crime under international law, and a humantarian crisis...

here's one more to add to the heap...



what's with the ban on clothes and shoes?? afraid of some hard core shoe tossing?? They prefer their Arabs nude??

just another means to harrass and humiliate the residents of Gaza, IMO...

please explain?

I'm interested in the answer to that, as well. As well as from what roots this has grown from.

here's a very interesting article that speaks to a very key issue...and its from an Israeli Jew (before anyone calls it muslim propaganda...)

The root of islamic violence starts with their prophet. If one looks at how Christianity started it does not start with violence and the Son of God is not really comparable to Mohammed. Irrespective of the violence men have done in the name of religion if one takes into account the context of violence in the Bible as well as the context of the violence in the koran its quite clear that islam is not a religion of peace.

I never recommend the texts I've read to other people because they are BORING. I usually tell people if they want an easy read to read The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam. There are references in there as well.

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"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com

I have not been following this thread (more then two pages long seems to be beating a subject to death) but in my search for names for a green community I came up with the word "kibbutz" as the only synonym for "community". I went to the wiki on kibbutz and found an interesting history on the development of the Jewish community that would eventually become the modern nation of Israel. Reading this document really explains the depth and variety of stands on this topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz

If the root of Islamic violence is in Mohammed, where is the root of Christian violence? Judaic violence? What do you think of Dogbreath's posted article which explains how the Jewish people took away basic aid from the Palestinians? Why are they allowed no shoes? Would you not agree that this is simply harrassment? Are you saying that Mohammed was the bad boy in the school yard who started it all?

I think it best to leave behind discussions of Mohammed and LOOK - just LOOK at what is happening to the Palestinian people.

You need to look outside what it is you *want* to see. Look at what muslims (including Palestinians) do to their own people in addition to others.

_________________
"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com

But I HAVE seen it. You haven't answered my questions.

No you really haven't seen it. You look at it the way you want things to be.

_________________
"Animal rights is mental illness masquerading as philosophy" ~ Unknown

"The mightiest of weapons is truth. And everyone knows you’re not permitted to enter a Government building with a weapon." -- The Covert Comic www.covertcomic.com

A reporter from the U.S., Alison Weir, first began to become interested in the conflict with the 2000 uprising. Before then she knew very little about what was happening except what she was fed over the mainstream news channels. She began to get curious and to pay more attention because she noticed how one-sided the view of the conflict seemed to be. She travelled to Gaza and realized the situation was the most distorted issue she'd ever come across. She saw how the Palestinians are virtually kept in prison. She saw how the military checkpoints - soldiers with machine guns and tanks, allowed no entrance or exit to the Palestinian people. She saw bullet ridden neighborhoods and Gaza's agricultural land bulldozed. She saw families forced into poverty because they are not allowed out of their towns to go to work. She saw women living in tin shanties because Israel wanted their land so bulldozed their homes. She met children who had been horribly and irrevocably wounded by Israeili soldiers in retaliation for throwing stones. In Bethlehem - she visited a hospitalized baby whose mother couldnt visit because she was not allowed out of Gaza. When she returned to San Fransisco and looked at the news coverage, she was appallled at how all the newspapapers reported "Israel under seige".

So, she created an organization called "If Americans Knew" - which reveals the bias of U.S. media and how the public are misinformed by it.

She carried out a study which analytically and statistically looked at news coverage and chose clear, objective categories that would be as immune as possible to subjective interpretations and looked at how deaths were being covered by US media.

She looked at the New York Times, ABC, CBS, NBC.

In 2001 165 Israelis were killed while 549 Palestinians were killed.
In 2004 107 Israelis were killed while 821 Palestinians were killed. The ratio of Palestinian deaths to Israeli deaths is roughly 8:1

Inspite of this, ABC covered the deaths at a ratio of 3:1 Israeli to Palestinian deaths. Both CBS and NBC covered the deaths at 4:1 Israeli to Palestinian

The bias is glaring!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOvlYQvRYFE

And there's more if you care to look. Do you care to look?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWjYHP91gA&NR=1

I am not really responding to rpdog as I fully realize that rpdog is unwilling or possibly unable to listen. I would be very interested to hear from Josh on this issue as he was the one who initially posted the topic - and I'm glad he did. Josh, have you been following this thread? Has your point of view changed from what it was when you did initially posted?

this can be said about you from your posts to date. you simply retreat to the mantra that the prophet was a bad man...and ignore the other violence throughout history, done in the Name of Christ, by Churches, governments and private groups of Christians...you are moving the goal posts.

By selecting bits of the Koran or Islamic history to 'prove' that there is something wrong with Islam, that Muslims are all wrong headed because their prophet was a violent deviant, and their religion is fundamentally violent, is propaganda used to allow western countries (not just the US...) to exploit Muslim countries and to bomb the crap out of them when they resist, and to not care about 'collateral damage', AKA civilian casualties, because they are all just followers of a deviant religion anyway...isn't that what this is about? its exactly what Hitler did to the jews to allow a civilised modern Christian nation to carry out the holocaust...and its exactly what's happening to the Palestinians who used to be the majority population in Pre-israel Palestine...

yes, many Islamic nations today are 'backward' , repressive and violent, but really WHY? not because their prophet married a 9 year old girl (apparently normal behaviour at the time), and not because 'they hate our freedom' but because they are in many cases backward tribal groups who have risen to power as a backlash against dictatorships set up by western countries to allow exploitation of natural resources . Think about the history of Iran that I pointed out earlier. You can look at Iraq and Aphganistan too.

Iraq, Saddam Hussein came to power WITH american help. he was a 'good guy' while he was warring against Iran, until he went off the leash and attacked Kuwait...then he was an evil dictator who had to be stopped at all cost...(its about what's good for the US in this case...). Same with the Taliban, they were tribal warlords with no influence beyond their own 'counties' until the US funded, equipped and trained them to fight the Soviets...then when the soviets went down, they turned on the US...The US government paid the salaries for the Taliban government for one year see-

http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20011015.html.

There is now a pipeline across Aphganistan that was not there prior to the US / NATO invasion, carryng oil from Central Asia to the coast...you think that the war in Aphganistan is about taking down the Taliban? about freeing the people? about stopping opium production?...

characterising an entire religion as violent or uncivilized, is propaganda. Bomb belts or a cruise missiles. Which is worse, they have both taken out hundreds of innocent civilians.

APPARENTLY... the US religious right and the Zionist government of Israel do not want you to know this, but, Jews and Arabs have lived peacefully side by side for hundreds of years , throughout the world...

given recent European history...pogroms, holocaust, etc, they should have more to resent Christians for , not Muslims... check out this brief clip...

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article21927.htm

Yep. I do believe you've mined the essence of the problem and summarized it succinctly. War crimes can and do happen to "civilized" people and are committed by similarly "civilized" people - even people who go to church, synangogue or mosque on a regular basis.

Problem is we don't tend to call these people who are being raped, murdered, beaten, gunned down, bombed, disenfranchised, tormented , etc .... "people". We call them vermin, gooks, terrorists, etc. The propoganda spinners are skilled at making them somehow "other" - as in other than fully human and therefore less important.

Either rpdog will never understand or is just trying to burying his head deeper in the sand with the continued use of his oft-repeated mantras. It does seem a little strange that he is so on top of the game and in the know when it comes to AR propoganda, but cannot see this kind of hatred staring him in the face no matter how much evidence is provided for him. Go figure.