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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:51 pm 
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RogerYates wrote:
hunter88 wrote:
Roger I'd like to quote some of the stuff you posted. But there are so many more sentences then 2 I wouldn't be able to do it justice without breaking forum rules like you just did.

I know the proper thing to do would be to report this to Josh so he can tell you to edit your post to conform to the rules. But it seems so much easier to just let you know and save Josh all that time.


I'm sorry if I have broken the rules - but I do not think I have. I cleared this sort of thing with animallover. I cited my own writing, so I think that means the 2 sentences rules does not apply.

RY

Sorry Roger, I posted my last post before I saw your reply. Being familiar with your writing, I was confident that you wrote that fascinating article "Talking Turkey."

Talking about turkey hunters... If you want to see something really sick, here it is "real pride" of NRA, their supporters and their members.



    Warning: animal cruelty

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:08 pm 
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Question for Ante: Would you say the narrator in the link expressed a welfarists view or a abolitionist view?

He doesn't condemn hunting, ante. Only the event displayed in the link. Have any thoughts therein upon this?

Question for all turkey hunters hereabouts: Who's done this sort of shooting?

I've never done anything like it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:23 pm 
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sevendogs wrote:
Hunting is good for wild populations. When some animals are removed, new born animals have more space and food to be happy. It is OK as long as the species is not threatened. Under conditions of overpopulation and shortage of wild predators, hunting becomes vital for the very survival of herbivores. We have certain herbivorous species and even some predators, which benefit from lndscapes created by people and they even gravitate to new habitats created by people. Hunting helps to restore some balance and it provides a thrilling sport for many. Meat of game is clean, tasty and healthy to eat. Life is productive and harvesting in the wild is a part of natural sustainable way of life. Hunting is green. Urbanites, eating meats wrapped in plastic, forget where their food is coming from. Vegetarianism is not an answer. You need a digestive system of a cow, or elephant to become a herbivore.


Yeah, this sounds like scripted propaganda spewed around by hunting industry which the article in my opening post talks about. In that article it's pointed out that animal overpopulation is beneficial to hunting industry and that most of all wildlife overpopulation problems are created by Wildlife Agencies who are catering to the interests of these industries, have been dependent and dominated by hunters, trappers and others who kill animals for entertainment etc.

But this is all besides the point. Hunting propaganda sounds like some white supremacist saying that we should bomb the nations where people are starving because these people are dying from diseases and starvation and therefore by genocide we'll eliminate this problem and at the same time there will be more land and resources for the imperialists; our military-industrial complex will get fatter, and our economy will thrive as the result of the war and the atrocities of the war.

Image

Animals in the wild do not need homo rapiens to survive. They did just fine before homo rapiens came about. The only way homo rapiens can help animals in the wild is to reduce drastically human overpopulation and leave nonhuman habitat alone.

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Last edited by Ante Bozanich on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:29 pm 
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Quote:
"homo rapiens"
?

Now who's calling who names?

By the way, I haven't hunted since moving to Texas. Not because I didn't want to, but because I don't have time to. For me, hunting was always a means to put food on the table. Me and a strict vegetarian diet don't get along too well gastronomically.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:38 pm 
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roadside wrote:
Quote:
"homo rapiens"


Now who's calling who names?


BS! I am homo rapien too. This is not "calling names." This is labeling entire humankind including myself. Get it? Do you have a problem with the play with words? I've picked this term from a great writer and thinker.

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Last edited by Ante Bozanich on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:38 pm 
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Iowanic wrote:
Question for Ante: Would you say the narrator in the link expressed a welfarists view or a abolitionist view?

He doesn't condemn hunting, ante. Only the event displayed in the link. Have any thoughts therein upon this?

Question for all turkey hunters hereabouts: Who's done this sort of shooting?

I've never done anything like it.


What shown here isn't turkey hunting. Turkey hunting involves fair chase hunting of wild turkeys in the wild. What's shown here is wanton, sadistic killing of restrained, domesticated turkeys. It's cowardly, contemptible, and idiotic.
What is interesting here, at the same time, is how the narrator subtly and fallaciously tries to tie the majority of hunters to the NRA, as if they are somehow the monolithic voice of hunters, which would be akin to saying that PeTA is the representative voice of all ARs. In fact, many hunters have fled the NRA as we feel they no longer represent average sportsmen. I haven't been an NRA member for about 10 years. Notice how he only focuses on the NRA, and doesn't ask, say, the National Wild Turkey Federation, and those of us who are its members, what their opinion is.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:53 pm 
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Iowanic wrote:
For those interested in hearing both sides:

"The politically Incorrect Guide to Hunting" by Frank Miniter.

Does a pretty fair job of investigating how hunting impacts the enviroment and people. There's amusing reporting on the activities of something called 'Wounded bear rescue' during the Dec 2005 bear hunt. Even more telling was how the media behaved during same. Eye-opening reading, for those not afraid of the whole truth.


Ante: still not up to answering my question? Why is hunting by humans considered terrorism, but a wolf eatting a deer alive not?




Another great read, if you've not read it is In Defense of Hunting by Dr. James Swan. It does a pretty good job of debunking the myths and falsehoods about hunting. It should be in every outdoorsman's library.

http://www.jamesswan.com/IDOH.html

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:22 pm 
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Quote:
I'm sorry if I have broken the rules - but I do not think I have. I cleared this sort of thing with animallover. I cited my own writing, so I think that means the 2 sentences rules does not apply.

RY


Sorry Roger I didn't know all that uninformed gibberish was yours. Though I'm not sure I'd want to take credit for it. After all it is about as inaccurate as you can get. Perhaps next time you can talk to a hunter and get factual information. That is if you really want factual information.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:26 pm 
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Quote:
Good explanation to clear the air about turkeys and turkey hunting, there Hunter.


Turkey hunting has become one of my favorites. While I've deer hunted for over 40 years, I just started turkey hunting 4 or 5 years ago. Of course the main reason for that is we really didn't have very many turkeys around here prior to that. When I moved to my present location 9 years ago you would see a turkey by the road every once in a while. Now I've had over 100 near my house. Guess the hunting hasn't hurt their numbers. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:26 pm 
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Ante Bozanich wrote:
BS! I am homo rapien too. This is not "calling names." This is labeling entire humankind including myself. Get it? Do you have a problem with the play with words? I've picked this term from a great writer and thinker.


Yes, I have a problem with it. Just like I have a problem with your attitude. Who the heck died and left you the lord and master?

If you want to go play with something, perhaps I have a much more enjoyable suggestion for you.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:43 am 
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The fact is, less than seven percent of the U.S. population hunts. Notwithstanding, on federal land alone, hunters kill more than 200 million animals yearly - crippling, orphaning, and harassing millions more. Read more...

This is simply not true. Where from this number came about 7% of hunting population? Hunters kill animals, this is for sure. Death of any creature (organism is a part of life), the last tribute to the environment. Immortality of any species would be an environmental disaster. This is what some doctors dream about to make a quick buck now. Here, in Virginia, thousands of whitetail deer are shot every fall-winter hunting season, but their population does not decline; it is still on the increase. Many thousands are killed by cars. We should expand whitetail hunting. Even in city limits you cannot grow tomatoes, because of deer. You must put fences around you vegetable patch. Mother nature is abundant and it is productive. We are here to harvest some of nature products. Our hunting dogs evolved with us the natural way, just like other animals and plants and, therefore, they deserve protection like parts of biodiversity and culture. Hunting is a natural right of hunting dogs and their owners. I killed a rat in our barn yesterday. It was Rattus norvegicus, a city creature. How it got here? I guess someone caught it and gave it a ride in woods, "where it belongs", but the rat came to our place, looking for its natural habitat with people. I use kill traps. I do not consider it hunting, just pest control. By killing a rat I saved some other creatures and gave them more space to live a happy life. This is a game of life. I support Nature Conservancy and WWF, but I am a hunter and a meat eater. Why animal rightnicks try to impose their believes and feelings on the rest of us? This is their religion. They run forums, which are like closed sect, or party, secret meetings. I entered a few, but was banned, because those forums were not for discussions. They were for guiding their sect members.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:23 am 
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hunter88 wrote:
Quote:
I'm sorry if I have broken the rules - but I do not think I have. I cleared this sort of thing with animallover. I cited my own writing, so I think that means the 2 sentences rules does not apply.

RY


Sorry Roger I didn't know all that uninformed gibberish was yours. Though I'm not sure I'd want to take credit for it. After all it is about as inaccurate as you can get. Perhaps next time you can talk to a hunter and get factual information. That is if you really want factual information.



Yes, I see what you mean. Since the piece is composed largely of hunters' comments from hunters' web sites, I should not have expected accuracy.

However, other hunters I have spoken to regard what these hunters are saying to be accurate but then they were not first and foremost acting as a spin doctor on a public forum.

RY

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:33 am 
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Accurate about what, Mr. Yates?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:33 am 
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Quote:
Yes, I see what you mean. Since the piece is composed largely of hunters' comments from hunters' web sites, I should not have expected accuracy.


No the inacuracy comes in the way to portray the comments, but then you are just a bit biased so this should not come as a surprise.

Quote:
However, other hunters I have spoken to regard what these hunters are saying to be accurate but then they were not first and foremost acting as a spin doctor on a public forum.

RY


I've never tried to spin anything Roger and have been totally honest when I've talked about hunting. But then I have nothing to hide so there would be no need for me to misrepresent what I do. I kill animals and I eat them, there is nothing wrong with that.

All we have to do is go out on the street and talk to some average people. Ask them what do you consider normal human behavior. Going out and killing an animal to feed yourself and your family. Or climbing in a dumpster out behind a store somewhere and eating the garbage that is headed for the landfill.

Want to bet more people will agree with me then with our little capitalist Ante.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:37 am 
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Oh, Griz, I have read that book By Swan; it is very good.

I esepecialy liked the part where he dropped in on that ARA-get together. Gilligan was there, as I recall.

Swan tears most of the common ARA arguements up pretty good, I thought.


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