EnviroLink Forum

Destroy the system that has killed all ecosystems.

Destroy the society that plunders, exploits and kills earth 365 days of the year and then celebrates Earth Day.

For several decades environmentalists have been warning modern society that ecosystems are getting destroyed - that consumerist lifestyle is not sustainable.

But modern society which was busy chasing progress, growth and development did not listen. It refused to believe there was any environmental crisis or problem. It said science and technology will always find a solution - if earth gets destroyed we will move on to another planet.

Impossible dreams were sold to people in the name of science and technology.

Moving to another planet would probably rank as the most impossible of all impossible things.

One space shuttle exploded during take off - another exploded on the return journey.

So far man has not been able to go beyond the moon. There is no other life sustaining ecosystem/ planet within the solar system. Outside the solar system planets and galaxies are millions of light years away - billions of light years away.

So when are we moving to a new home ?

Next year - or 5 years later ?


sushil_yadav



Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Well, some star systems may be a bit closer, but still pretty far off.
Clearly, we need to get our act together here before we move along.

Thanx for dropping in, Sushilydv. Hadn't heard from ya in so long.

It is more than industrial society that destroys the mind and environment; it is overpopulation itself.

http://www.cosmosmith.com/human_population_crisis.htm

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

A couple things. World population is not 6.5 billion, it is 6.8 billion.
China had exemptions for farmers with its so-called one child policy, and the lowest TFR they got was 1.6 in 1986. Originally, their scientists wanted the Chinese population to top out at 1.1 to 1.2 billion then decline, to prevent eco-collapse. Chenyu reports the actual Chinese population at 1.5 billion now.
India has a TFR of 2.6 which could eventually put that country at a higher population than China, but with deforestation so complete and aquifers nearly dry, and extreme river pollution, and lack of dung fuel for cooking--they will probably crash even before Africa. Then China and other parts of Asia. Migrations from these areas of collapse will collapse other areas, until it is worldwide by the 2040s.
It was the start of using coal, then oil, along with decrease in predators and especially the self-predation of warfare, then all the technology allowing better health and much less infant mortality, fertilizers and irrigation on a massive scale, and machinery ripping up land and, with factories and power plants, throwing out huge amounts of pollution in the form of CO2 and mercury. Plastic developed then cast aside when used has caused huge trash gyres in the oceans and an average of 46,000 pieces of plastic in every square mile of ocean and sea on the entire planet.
People disconnected from nature, and reproduced like rats. Especially the ones who could not see ahead, the consequences of their actions---the stupid, the ignorant, the greedy, the ones with too much tolerance and compassion, and the ones who could not control their breeding lust.
Even before industrialization, the seeds above were in place. Except for in those tribes that were close to nature and could see ahead, and in those elsewhere who could do the same, the wise men. However, they are, and were, way too few in number and their percentage has gone down as the stimulated population insanely went up to way past overshoot.
Overcrowding leads to hostility, depression, and anxiety. It used to be cured with migrations to new lands, or wars over territory which killed off the weakest. People that started to get used to crowding were able to far exceed the long term carrying capacity of the region (even before industrialization made it worse), and crowding got worse to the point of even them getting the depression, anxiety, and/or hostility. Mercury and other pollutants also have effects on the brain, and so does malnutrition and mono-or incomplete diets. Various diseases cause mental anguish and forms of insanity, and so does lack of water.

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Well put, Mr. Electroglide, damn well put. I would have used rabbits, but rats are a better analogy.

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TANG SOO!

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Vegetarian: Old Native American word meaning really bad hunter.

Grizzly Bear,

It seems you have genuine problem understanding simple language. In my previous post I have explained how population increased from 1 billion to 6.8 billion within a period of 200 - 250 years - how overpopulation and overconsumerism are a result of science, technology and industrialization. It is an analysis of how and why we landed in the present mess - got it this time?

I can understand why you got so worked up over the issue of science, technology and consumerism - it is quite easy to understand - you come from the land where 5% of world population is consuming 40% of world resources.

If China and India had not made efforts to check population it would be much greater than what it is today.

By the way what has your country done to check consumerism?

After the 9/11 incident your previous President asked Americans to resume shopping as soon as possible.

sushil_yadav

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Vegetarian: Old Native American word meaning really bad hunter.

BTW, sushilydv, for all of your whining about technology, you sure do seem to enjoy posting diatribes on the internet an awful lot. Hypocrisy, thy name is sushilydv!

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Vegetarian: Old Native American word meaning really bad hunter.

Don't try to avoid my question, Grizzly Bear.

What has your country done to check consumerism?

What has your country done about 5% of world population consuming 40% of resources?

sushil_yadav

America has done nothing to promote less consumption. If anything, the opposite is true.
The idea that having as many kids as you want is a "right" is ingrained in many, when in reality reproduction is a responsibility, not a right. Modern humans should be intelligent enough to see that with all the technical and scientific advances we have gone far beyond long tern carrying capacity, a term and situation any hunter should know, and these modern humans should adjust their reproduction to bring the total to long term sustainable at a decent standard of living. Unfortunately, the average human is not that intelligent, and our population has exactly followed the stimulated mammalian population crash curve.
It is not a human right to infringe on the survivability of the unborn future generations. It is stupid to think that technology can create resources out of nothing, or that science does not have plateaus and will always get us out of the situation we have gotten ourselves into.
Returning to a somewhat simpler life, and having the morality to think about those unborn children of the future is what I have done (see the other post). I have also sacrificed for my country fighting communism and supporting fighting the kill cult. We have cut our consumption down to 1/16th the footprint of the average American, and with only one child, the future footprint that is so critical to our species survival.
Modern humans, on average, are not really smart enough to see the future or care about more than their own lives and immediate family. This is why forced sterilizations have had to be used. People will not live with less impact without being forced to, and the trend is for more impact by places like China who want a better standard of living. The American standard of living has been falling for the middle class for over 25 years thanks to overpopulation allowed to invade or legally migrate to escape the overpopulation ruin they caused in their own countries. Thanks to corrupt politicians, mostly.

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"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

Industrial Society has been spreading blatant lies over the years.

"Green Industry", "Green Technology", "Ethical Consumerism", "Sustainable Development".

These are contradictory terms – these are oxymorons.
Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.

You cannot save a person after you have killed him.
You cannot save ecosystems after you have killed them for making consumer goods.


When we make consumer goods we kill Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land - directly or indirectly.

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.

It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.

Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.

Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted. Industry kills Water.

Industries/ Factories burn millions of tonnes of fuel - and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.

Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.

When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.

When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.

Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.



We have limited resources/ ecosystems on earth which is just 40,000 km in circumference.

If we destroy ecosystems for fewer things [food, clothing, shelter] the ecosystems will last longer.

If we destroy ecosystems for more things [consumer goods] the ecosystems will finish much sooner.

The fewer things we make the more sustainable we are.

This is common sense - plain common sense - which the so called smart, intelligent, advanced, civilized and developed Industrial Society does not possess.



We are alive because of ecosystems - we owe our very existence to ecosystems.

Industrial Society has destroyed most ecosystems within a span of 250 years after Industrial Revolution.

Industrial Society has destroyed necessary things [animals, trees, air, water and land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].

Ecosystems are not consumer goods that can be manufactured, repaired or restored by MultiNational Companies in industries and factories.

The collapse has already happened for millions of other species. Most of them have been decimated.

Very soon it will be the turn of man to go.


sushil_yadav


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

In India, millions use the ground as a toilet, which rains wash into rivers, making them full of harmful bacteria which kills thousands daily. That is a lack of composting toilets, which are a technical invention. Millions do not use birth control there either, which is another technical invention. Miss-use of technology, over-breeding, over-tolerance, and over-compassion have been a big part of the drive of overpopulation and its demands which have ruined the biosphere.
It is not just industrial society that destroys itself. If industry used resources at their regeneration rate, recharge rate, and polluted at or below the planetary absorption rate---it would have stayed a positive thing.
It was miss-used with greed, and the demands of people who wanted irrigation water and clean drinking water, better heath care, then faster travel, electric lights, then electric devices, and powerful machinery to extract more resources without regard to the future or the depletion and pollution.
India, China, and Europe were all overpopulated before the industrial revolution and got worse after. Societies where people had become crowd tolerant and too compassionate and over-tolerant, already had the seeds of their own destruction in their minds. It allowed overpopulation to start its deadly course. The demands of this also started human inventiveness to start the industrial revolution which increased overpopulation, depletion, and pollution.
So human overcrowding was the start which led to inbred tolerance which was the genetic mental destruction that led to environmental destruction through numbers and industry. The original genetic makeup of humans had crowd intolerance for ecological reasons of survival developed over millions of years(it also kept diseases from affecting the whole population). When people got crowded they would either migrate or fight to the death over territory and resources, thus reducing population and crowding. They stayed in smaller village and tribal groups. Self predation was an evolutionary trait when predation by other animals, and disease wasn't enough to keep in ecological carrying capacity of a region, after the technology of spears was developed, making humans the top predator. Crowd intolerance developed in our evolution for ecological carrying capacity reasons, also, along with diseases would spread easier in crowded conditions.
What could have made it so people crowded together and stayed without migration and warfare to reduce population? I can only guess that it was a primitive religion that taught over-tolerance and over-compassion, and gave people peace when they should have felt the need to leave the crowd or make war. Crowds also led to famine and disease, which should have been seen by intelligent people as signs that crowding was not right. Unfortunately, the average people were just not quite intelligent enough, and crowding continued in many societies. Self predation was not great enough to prevent the overpopulation and further crowding which built slowly at first and accelerated with fossil fuels and the industrial revolution which feeds the madness that was started with over-tolerance, over-compassion, over-breeding, and the genetic change to crowd tolerance with peaceful religions and inventiveness to over-use the environment.

_________________
"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.
“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle
“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein