EnviroLink Forum

Fosgate,

Thanks for your interest and interpreting my post. It is pretty much spot on.

If I am honest - yes, I am concerned for my animals first and foremost - these are the animals who are in my care and whom I am fond of and of whom I have a say in what happens to them. I want to keep them safe and yes, hunting near me is not compatable to what I am trying to do.
If I am also honest, I don't like seeing and hearing and knowing that there are animals being shot and killed either but right now my concern has to be my animals.

CL

So you say. I find it a waste of time to clutter the issue with analogies and parallels when the simple fact of the matter is that animals eating other animals is not an extraordinarily rare observation in the biological world.

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TANG SOO!

Nothing wrong with that. You're most welcome, of course.

Stick around a while if you like. Hell, bring friends. Not all the pro-hunters/animal-use folk here are as neurotic and pretentious as you may have experienced.

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TANG SOO!

No, analogies, parallels, Adorno and Isaac Bashevis Singer are important because this is about human culture, ethics and sociology not biology. Tired old arguments, we've all heard thousands of times: "animals eating other animals" just don't cut it, since e.g. rape is rather common in "biological world" but immoral and illegal in human world. But now, I'm sure I am going to hear some more circular BS, so, yes, enough is enough for me here.

Help needed in any or all of the following:

1. Join the Global Anti-Hunting Coalition
2. Host local speaking events
3. Organize local Funeral Motorcade for the Deer
4. Donations to cover cost (Anthony Marr is not paid)
5. A place for AM to stay

The Earth and the animals need our help, and Anthony Marr needs yours.

Together we stand.

Anthony Marr

Contact:

http://www.HOPE-CARE.org
http://www.MySpace.com/AnthonyMarr
http://www.YouTube.com/AnthonyMarr
http://www.HomoSapiensSaveYourEarth.blogspot.com
http://www.ARConference.org
http://www.AnimalVoices.org
604-222-1169

WATCH VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB-Swnr92Os

Regardless of what it is about or what cuts what, it's not an argument. It's the way it is.

Now, tell us again why it is wrong to eat animals? Try to convince others rather than yourself this time.

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TANG SOO!

In other words, I am unwilling to use my own money so I start yet another little ARA splinter group who can donate to prevent me from being out of pocket. Please give generously for a funeral motor cade for the deer

Observing this thread its so.....

It seems to me that everyone is going around in circles hitting their heads off a brick wall and nothing ever gets fixed. One side thinks the other side are cuckoo and vice versa and each ready to stamp and poo poo all over the other's views. It is quite frustrating to witness.

Yes, and as you say, to some hard work is also tormenting other people. There were also many "ambitious" hard working members of the SS whose ambition gave them prominent positions within that party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_SS_personnel

I don't consider "ambition" to be the hallmark of a morally and psychologically sound and integrated individual. Yet ambitious people do work hard to get where they want to be with the status and money as rewards for their efforts. They end up in the rat race though which can be brutal for them as well as the people they are competing with who have also been lead down that sorry trail. Quite unfortunate in my opinion. These are our lives which unfold into the presence of the here and now - which is really all there is or ever was and is therefore very sacred - so why not make our lives a work of art? (rhetorical) Some of us came to this understanding quite late, as I did (conservative Catholic upbringing) but at least we can apply the insights to the youth in our communities and give them the time and space to figure it out, unencumbered by the drone of big houses and big cars and the crazy idea that one must "get ahead" - whatever that means.


Something my little community teaches our children is to find out what they love to do - and do it!
- regardless of status and monetary reward. Sometimes when the little ones grow into adulthood, what they love to do happens to pay well and sometimes it doesn't. Regardless, if they have received the kind of guidance that does not include fear, they will most often discover their calling and find their fulfillment there. Then, "hard work" is also play, discovery, creativity and purpose.

As for why I spend and/or waste time on this forum ... I don't know. Sometimes it does seem a waste of time but I am attracted to it for some reason - maybe it's the same impetus that draws one to the gruesome realities of a car crash. But there's more. A sociological observation. A fascination with how people interact and the fact that this forum is a slice of society and is then a microcosm of that larger thing - the macrocosm that we call society. We wonder why we live with such incredible violence and most of us say we do not support violence ..... but then we end up being violent .... not just in action but in words too. These actions and words are us. Society is not some entity 'out there' somewhere. Rather, we are society - we make it up - with our words and actions. We're it. I know that must sound incredibly obvious and yet I think it isn't --- only because we tend to get so caught up with ideas and concepts that we miss the simplicity of it.

So I am interested.

But, yeah Ante, I do know what you mean .....

BTW - did you get wind of Velrow Rippers' "Fierce Light"? I hear it was recently screened in New York and I know that Velcrow was/is doing workshops in the centres where the doc is being shown. He is one (of many) who is doing some beautiful work. It might actually be a bit tame for you but excellent all the same. Ciao

And around and around we go. The majority use this forum as an arena for arguments sake ... but some use it as a place where ideas can be exchanged. Unfortunately, having a difference of opinion becomes personal far too often. For example, you would think that some people's lives were being threatened by the fact that there is a movement in North America - a first world continent - that retrieves discarded goods and food from dumpsters. I can't fathom why this has become such a sore point for some - as if it threatens the very fabric of society. And then of course the insults and accusations of dishonesty and moving goal posts and writing subject headings that can be contested while ignoring the actual content and being "losers" yadda, yadda, yadda. There is much gibberish but also some gems that come through. If you manage to stay out of the gutter where some here would like to drag you .... then you're in for some gems. It does require patience and I've noticed you have some.

As for threatening the very fabric of society .... well, not such a bad thing. Again, from the completely unencumbered Jiddu K, ".... truth is a danger to society".

Food for thought?

This is ridiculous if they are going to have a forum I don't understand why the moderator takes so long to approve comments.? This forum blows but I want to be here to support our Global Anti-Hunting Coalition. Come on moderator do your job!!

If I may offer an explanation, solutions proposed by those arguing (AR) are not viable ones. For example, who can't fix the issue of flat tires by eliminating vehicles, stop underage drinking with prohibition, or rape by castrating all males at birth?

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TANG SOO!

Quote:
"Anthony Marr in a debate on another forum was eventually cornered and had to admit that his Birth Control claims for controlling large tract deer herds were false and that I/C control would not work. "


That was from the bowhunting forum in Maryland dummie is talking about and A. Marr did not "give up" he tired of the same misleading statement you kept using over and over again and like he and I and most of us who are fighting for the lives of the innocent don't have time to waste on pointless garbage spouters like you. IC does work as Jay kirkpatrick keep saying on his video which you continue to ignore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29zuL9qWq9E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O89KlVzqxDs

"60% reduction in deer herd size" "its not an opinion its data"
"Deer Contraception works and works well"

Plus there is no more argument about whether IC is EPA or FDA approved because NOW IT IS APPROVED for field implementation although it could still have been used years ago but the hunting industry did not want it. I believe that those who lost a family member to Deer Vehicle Accidents should file a law suit to the DNR and let them go bankrupt or how about paying for all medical bills and time off from work due to DVA's?

Since it is an established scientific fact that Homo sapiens has evolved to be an omnivore, it actually IS about biology.



This may very well be the single most asinine thing you've ever said on this board. Rape is defined as unlawful sexual activity against one who has not, or cannot, give informed consent. Since animals cannot abide by any laws, and because they are incapable of operating within the concept of informed consent, which requires rational thought, there CANNOT be rape in the natural world. The idea of rape is a human moral/legal concept that has no meaning in the natural world. Animals may be said to mate, breed, or copulate, sometimes in ways we may find crude or strange, but animals do not rape. Just as there is no murder in the natural world, likewise, there is no rape. The notion that there is is little more than absurd anthropomorphizing.

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Vegetarian: Old Native American word meaning really bad hunter.